These spoilers aren’t great; most people who see them have said they regretted it. Maybe we should stop posting them.
Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter The Overlord
- Start date
Anything else left to spoil?What else was in your sources?
No, that was the last bit of info that had yet to be confirmed.
https://www.theilluminerdi.com/2020/12/01/star-trek-prodigy-characters/
https://www.theilluminerdi.com/2020/12/01/star-trek-prodigy-characters/
Interesting interview with Aaron Waltke on Trekcore: https://blog.trekcore.com/2022/11/star-trek-prodigy-aaron-waltke-interview-part-2/
Most striking parts:
About certain Tal Shiar factions:
Oops. So not only are they possibly partially responsible for the breakdown of the Artifact, now they may also inadvertedly have provided some help to the Tal Shiar to blow up Mars?
About the game:
About holo-Janeway:
About season 3:
Most striking parts:
And some say this show isn't "real" Star Trek. I like that they are going in this direction, as the treatment of other augmented characters in some of the other shows did not always seem fair.
About certain Tal Shiar factions:
Oops. So not only are they possibly partially responsible for the breakdown of the Artifact, now they may also inadvertedly have provided some help to the Tal Shiar to blow up Mars?
Episode 1x16 may be a quiet one, then crescendo again, I suppose. Though I wonder if that means Ascencia and co will quietly sneak out the back (shuttle) door.
About the game:
I wonder if they may indicate that the weird line in the game"[Vau N'akat robot speaking to Gwyn]You were created to carry the shadows inside you" may have relevance for the main plot, as this line otherwise had no impact or meaning within the game (and a confused Gwyn later asked Dal if he knew what it meant). Other elements thay may have relevance are the existence of other "Rev" type spacecraft and maybe also some of Dal's abilities in the game. The presence of other Vau N'akat agents, besides the Diviner, already is there in the show.
About holo-Janeway:
Bad choices from holo-Janeway? No idea what that could entail.
About season 3:
Regrettably, the answer given is not clear as to whether he means they will have first to plot out season 3 (as they want to continue until 7 seasons and a movie if possible), or if he means that a season 3 first will have to be ordered. Still no news about the latter, though Aaron Waltke or the Hageman brothers may know more.
That's a nonstarter. If people don't regard it as part of Trek no minuta will change that.
There seems to a relatively negative vibe around Prodigy on the web/reddit/etc, in parts of the fandom. Some dismiss it out of hand because it's animated, some because it's children/family programming, some for both reasons. Others are hang up on it being Kurtzman trek (and tying explicitly into events from Picard now), whereas some mega fans of the Kurtzman live action shows may be a bit jealous of the rather positive critical reception of Prodigy compared to rather lukewarm response to their own favourites (the generally well received Strange New Worlds excepted). And some do not dismiss it out of hand, but nevertheless seem to be annoyed by some of the more childish and/or humorous elements present (see recent ex-astris-scientia reviews, for example). Another thing heard regularly is that it is too starwarsy or just generic sci-fi with a thin veneer of ST paint.
I also have the impression that the "one continuous story" approach of Prodigy is a hard sell to many longtime Star Trek fans, even if they otherwise give Prodigy a fair shake. How often do you see people annoyed that not every mystery has been answered at the end of an episode or double episode, that not every conflict has been resolved ("melodrama" as some call it)? That's the classic TNG style, and while it worked well enough, for me the more novel-like approach of Prodigy is more rewarding. Just like the Dominion war wouldn't have been near as good if it was all resolved within 90 minutes.
For me, Prodigy is a genuinely good series, and while also a good Star Trek series, it's first and foremost something that's fun to watch and that always leaves you wanting more. While it's difficult to compare with classic, far more episodic older series like TNG, overall it may be the ST serie I love the most (though that may also be because it's new and ongoing).
I also have the impression that the "one continuous story" approach of Prodigy is a hard sell to many longtime Star Trek fans, even if they otherwise give Prodigy a fair shake. How often do you see people annoyed that not every mystery has been answered at the end of an episode or double episode, that not every conflict has been resolved ("melodrama" as some call it)? That's the classic TNG style, and while it worked well enough, for me the more novel-like approach of Prodigy is more rewarding. Just like the Dominion war wouldn't have been near as good if it was all resolved within 90 minutes.
For me, Prodigy is a genuinely good series, and while also a good Star Trek series, it's first and foremost something that's fun to watch and that always leaves you wanting more. While it's difficult to compare with classic, far more episodic older series like TNG, overall it may be the ST serie I love the most (though that may also be because it's new and ongoing).
What makes Prodigy so good (IMO)?
It's the combination of interesting characters that also work as an ensemble and gell as a group, with a setting and main plot that has been consistently designed (and planned out as a longterm arc, to some extent) from the start to setup conflict that is a natural result of the setting and the characters. They don't need to come up with a new antagonist every other episode, because it's included in the premise and in the background and motivations of the characters.
Another point that the Prodigy team IMO gets, is that antagonists are usually more interesting if they are not just evil for the sake of being evil. "Every villain is the hero of his or her own story" is often a good way to approach that. Don't get me wrong, there is certainly room for antagonists that are pretty evil and where negotiating may be pretty useless (DS9's Dominion War arc is, to some extent, an example of that), but antagonists that can - under certain circumstances - be reasoned with (to some extent) offer more dramatic possibilities.
Prodigy started out with Gwyn being a minor antagonist (but certainly also the heroine of her own story, from the start), and now has VA Janeway acting as antagonist (of sorts). This is an inspired choice, as conflict where the audience can sympathise/empathise with both sides is a good way to get them to care about story and characters. For later potential, I wouldn't be surprised if one or even both of Ascencia and the Diviner ultimately change their mind on destroying the Federation.
Compare this to an animated show with a similar animation style and somewhat similar setup in terms of characters and setting, Star Wars: Rebels. While an enjoyable series, it suffered from relatively bland characters of which most were barely developed at first, but also from the antagonist being "the empire". Since the emperor is evil and unattainable, no dramatic tension there. They just fight with and/or trick the forces of the Empire in most of their episodes, which makes the Empire looks utterly incompetent and unthreatening since a small rebel cell, partly composed of teens, just walks all over them without significant (or any) losses for the longest time. In contrast, the protagonists in Prodigy quite often fail in spite of being, well, prodigies. And they can fail, because the stakes are lower (failing against the Empire is not often an option) and sometimes failing is even beneficial (as with Gwyn's multiple failed escape attempts or VA Janeway's problems in cornering the "Protogies"). On the other hand, when there are fights the danger feels real, unlike Rebels' Stormtroopers who fire a lot but who hit maybe once every 10.000 shots, and thus present no credible threat at all (quite unlike in Star Wars:Andor - another excellent serialised series).
Add to this that Prodigy can combine its serial arc with (usually) well written episodic installments (that still develop the characters and/or the overarching plot anyway), excellent voice acting and IMO outstanding animation (though certainly not universally loved, the vistas shown and the amount of expression the characters can have is excellent IMO).
It has been written on those boards that many ST fans, after a number of seasons of Discovery and Picard, actually long for the pure episodic format and that Strange New Worlds is the answer for that. While no doubt partially true, I'd argue that there is a large market for serialised shows where the arc is well integrated and makes sense (and a more serialised element wouldn't hurt SNW, IMO). Why did Discovery (IMO) not achieve that, at least in season 1 (the only I watched)? Well, partly because of too many cooks in the kitchen (changing showrunners and visions is often deadly for a serialised story; see also the sequel Star Wars trilogy where every movie would contradict/retcon the previous one) and partly because their serialised story frankly didn't make much sense (the actions/motives of the Klingon factions are baffling, and the rather ridiculous mirror universe jaunt was the straw that broke the camels back for me, along with the treatment of Lorca as a character). With Prodigy, I have confidence that they will resolve the main beats of the storyline in a way that makes sense.
Compared to shows like TNG, I like that Prodigy's style allows to avoid the format of having the problem of the week solved at the planet (or anomaly, ship,...) of the week within 1 or 2 episodes. An arc has the potential for complex situations with solutions that take some time, but that are more rewarding when they do finally get resolved.
I just hope they get a 3rd season, and more.
It's the combination of interesting characters that also work as an ensemble and gell as a group, with a setting and main plot that has been consistently designed (and planned out as a longterm arc, to some extent) from the start to setup conflict that is a natural result of the setting and the characters. They don't need to come up with a new antagonist every other episode, because it's included in the premise and in the background and motivations of the characters.
Another point that the Prodigy team IMO gets, is that antagonists are usually more interesting if they are not just evil for the sake of being evil. "Every villain is the hero of his or her own story" is often a good way to approach that. Don't get me wrong, there is certainly room for antagonists that are pretty evil and where negotiating may be pretty useless (DS9's Dominion War arc is, to some extent, an example of that), but antagonists that can - under certain circumstances - be reasoned with (to some extent) offer more dramatic possibilities.
Prodigy started out with Gwyn being a minor antagonist (but certainly also the heroine of her own story, from the start), and now has VA Janeway acting as antagonist (of sorts). This is an inspired choice, as conflict where the audience can sympathise/empathise with both sides is a good way to get them to care about story and characters. For later potential, I wouldn't be surprised if one or even both of Ascencia and the Diviner ultimately change their mind on destroying the Federation.
Compare this to an animated show with a similar animation style and somewhat similar setup in terms of characters and setting, Star Wars: Rebels. While an enjoyable series, it suffered from relatively bland characters of which most were barely developed at first, but also from the antagonist being "the empire". Since the emperor is evil and unattainable, no dramatic tension there. They just fight with and/or trick the forces of the Empire in most of their episodes, which makes the Empire looks utterly incompetent and unthreatening since a small rebel cell, partly composed of teens, just walks all over them without significant (or any) losses for the longest time. In contrast, the protagonists in Prodigy quite often fail in spite of being, well, prodigies. And they can fail, because the stakes are lower (failing against the Empire is not often an option) and sometimes failing is even beneficial (as with Gwyn's multiple failed escape attempts or VA Janeway's problems in cornering the "Protogies"). On the other hand, when there are fights the danger feels real, unlike Rebels' Stormtroopers who fire a lot but who hit maybe once every 10.000 shots, and thus present no credible threat at all (quite unlike in Star Wars:Andor - another excellent serialised series).
Add to this that Prodigy can combine its serial arc with (usually) well written episodic installments (that still develop the characters and/or the overarching plot anyway), excellent voice acting and IMO outstanding animation (though certainly not universally loved, the vistas shown and the amount of expression the characters can have is excellent IMO).
It has been written on those boards that many ST fans, after a number of seasons of Discovery and Picard, actually long for the pure episodic format and that Strange New Worlds is the answer for that. While no doubt partially true, I'd argue that there is a large market for serialised shows where the arc is well integrated and makes sense (and a more serialised element wouldn't hurt SNW, IMO). Why did Discovery (IMO) not achieve that, at least in season 1 (the only I watched)? Well, partly because of too many cooks in the kitchen (changing showrunners and visions is often deadly for a serialised story; see also the sequel Star Wars trilogy where every movie would contradict/retcon the previous one) and partly because their serialised story frankly didn't make much sense (the actions/motives of the Klingon factions are baffling, and the rather ridiculous mirror universe jaunt was the straw that broke the camels back for me, along with the treatment of Lorca as a character). With Prodigy, I have confidence that they will resolve the main beats of the storyline in a way that makes sense.
Compared to shows like TNG, I like that Prodigy's style allows to avoid the format of having the problem of the week solved at the planet (or anomaly, ship,...) of the week within 1 or 2 episodes. An arc has the potential for complex situations with solutions that take some time, but that are more rewarding when they do finally get resolved.
I just hope they get a 3rd season, and more.
Kazon ship concept art
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/xYvWJX
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/xYvWJX
"All they have to do is do what Jellico says to do, and things will be fine."
"Patrick Stewart always hated the fish in the ready room. He said, “We’re doing a series about the dignity of all creatures in the universe and we’ve got captured fish in the ready room?” But the producers like shooting through the fish swimming around there. So Jellico did that for Patrick! [laughs]"
And he's apparently back in S2!
https://trekmovie.com/2022/12/01/in...in-star-trek-prodigy-and-the-next-generation/
"Patrick Stewart always hated the fish in the ready room. He said, “We’re doing a series about the dignity of all creatures in the universe and we’ve got captured fish in the ready room?” But the producers like shooting through the fish swimming around there. So Jellico did that for Patrick! [laughs]"
And he's apparently back in S2!
https://trekmovie.com/2022/12/01/in...in-star-trek-prodigy-and-the-next-generation/
So, looks like I was right.
Good call.
His was the most reasonable assumption, and made the most sense from a writing perspective.
More Jellico?
Well, you were right about it being a sleeper ship, but not about it being sub-warp. The ship depicted was an Enterprise-era Tellarite cruiser, which was warp-capable. As I pointed out before, a sublight sleeper ship would've taken at least tens of thousands of years to reach the Delta Quadrant.
No one on the show called this ship warp capable, so you were wrong.
As he said.
Sleeper ships by definition don't have faster-than-light capability, or at the very most a very low warp capability that will still require a travel of many years between star systems. My guess is the Tellarite sleeper ship just has a resemblance to ENT Tellarite cruisers in the same way a lot of Federation and even pre-Federation ships have similar outlines, shapes and colors because they come from a certain culture. Maybe a lof of Tellarite spacecraft have a similar shape and design?
Heaven knows Klingon ships throughout the centuries seem to share a basic feel.
Heaven knows Klingon ships throughout the centuries seem to share a basic feel.
No one said it wasn't warp capable either.
It would have to be warp capable to reach the Delta Quadrant within a couple hundred years or so (unless they fell into a wormhole or something).
Having cryonics on board would still make sense in this case if they don't want them using up their supplies as a generational ship.
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