Where did all of the con artists go?

[fireproof78]

There'll always be assholes looking to take best possible advantage of their situation at the expense of others.

But in TNG, humans have "evolved" past all that. Halfway to Salamanders!

Indeed, but find it hard to believe that even in the 24th century we would see a lot of them. Supposedly, humans are more trusting and honest, and stand to gain little in the way of monetary reward if all their needs are met.

So what purpose would such behavior serve for them in such an environment?

 

[at Quark's]

As I recall, Neelix probably was one if the occasion called for it, though a poor one- Quark would have had him for lunch. Paris might have been to some extent, as well. At least, at the end of Live Fast and Prosper they seem proud at not having lost their skill.

 

[Qonundrum]

Wasn't Okona going to be a Mudd-like trope? He wasn't outrageous for evil moohahaha villain sake, but looked bad while doing something half-noble. That's not as fun as being outright moohahaha fun, though? Maybe both? But the crew already have Q to keep them bemused...

 

[Nerys Myk]

All being saved for an epic called The Wrath of Con.

 

[Orphalesion]

Wasn't Okona going to be a Mudd-like trope? He wasn't outrageous for evil moohahaha villain sake, but looked bad while doing something half-noble. That's not as fun as being outright moohahaha fun, though? Maybe both? But the crew already have Q to keep them bemused...

I have long speculated that Okona was supposed to be TNG's attempt at making a Mudd-like character. But because of the philosophy enforced in Seasons 1-2 they didn't want to make him too rogue-like and ended up with bargain-bin Han Solo and this led to them not revisiting the character.
A pity, because the actor was very hot.

And honestly. I'd gladly remove all the Q episodes and have Okona episodes instead. Then again I'd gladly remove all the Q episodes in general, even if they are replaced with nothing.

 

[danellis]

All being saved for an epic called The Wrath of Con.

Wasn't that the working title for Picard S3?

dJE

 

[bdub76]

Indeed, but find it hard to believe that even in the 24th century we would see a lot of them. Supposedly, humans are more trusting and honest, and stand to gain little in the way of monetary reward if all their needs are met.

So what purpose would such behavior serve for them in such an environment?

I'd argue that inequality is still present on Earth. Look at the property that Picard owns. Check out the property that Kirk owned in Generations. And we can see the quarters that Chief O'Brien had in DS9 versus the others. There are the haves and have nots. But now you have space travel too. How many people could afford to get off planet to pursue opportunities? The TV series Picard makes this more clear than TNG ever did. In Picard it seems like the Federation is imploding, and that would create a lot of opportunities.

As for con artists in the episodes, how many would you consider successful? Can you point me to specific episodes, where there are legit cons going on that succeed? I'd love to rewatch them.

 

[fireproof78]

How many people could afford

All of them. How many colonies are out there?

 

[Dryson]

Con Artists would most likely have been consumed by the Ferengi, the greatest con artists of all, legally speaking of course.

 

[Dryson]

Has anyone mentioned the drug dealing planet from TNG?

So, basically we’ve all identified like…20 plots containing con artists of some variety.

I forgot the episode, but it was with Q and Picard from Earth's past, I think WWIII, where all soldiers were addicted to a performance enhancing drug, just like the Jem Ha'dar were.

What happened to those drug dealers and empires? Did those Earth based drug dealers leave Earth and eventually meet up with the Founders?

 

[Farscape One]

I'd argue that inequality is still present on Earth. Look at the property that Picard owns. Check out the property that Kirk owned in Generations. And we can see the quarters that Chief O'Brien had in DS9 versus the others. There are the haves and have nots. But now you have space travel too. How many people could afford to get off planet to pursue opportunities? The TV series Picard makes this more clear than TNG ever did. In Picard it seems like the Federation is imploding, and that would create a lot of opportunities.

As for con artists in the episodes, how many would you consider successful? Can you point me to specific episodes, where there are legit cons going on that succeed? I'd love to rewatch them.

Picard's property was passed down for generations, so I don't really see an issue there.

Regarding O'Brien's quarters on DS9, keep in mind he had a wife and daughter and later a baby boy, so it makes sense that a married couple with kids would get larger quarters.

Regarding Kirk's cabin in GENERATIONS and his place in ST II and III, I really don't know. The cabin might have been something his brother or parents had and he moved into it later, and his place in II and III might be typical for an Admiral.


On the topic of the post-scarcity, no money in the Federation (at the very least, Earth), I think STAR TREK could take a page from THE ORVILLE on how they explained it. Basically, reputation is your currency. All needs... food, shelter, education, etc... are all met, and you can do whatever you want, as long as you aren't being lazy. Doing absolutely nothing gets frowned upon, but you have freedom to do whatever else... study, be a musician, join the fleet, be a researcher, and endless other possibilities.

I like to think that's what goes on in the Federation, too. At least, with humans and Earth.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Instead of doing it to gain monetarily, you might have someone who likes the thrill of the con - it fills an emotional need or a sick pleasure. So you have someone who may try to cheat a planet out of a resource, lying that you need it more.

It could also help you get political/personal career advantages, things money can not/no longer buy. You cheat someone out of something that somebody else desperately needs/craves, and you deliver it in exchange for favor/safety/status.

 

[Oddish]

DS9 is the winner of the contest, given that it has a con artist in its main credits. Or do we forget what Quark was doing to Harry Kim in the VOY pilot?

 

[Kor]

Wasn't Okona going to be a Mudd-like trope? He wasn't outrageous for evil moohahaha villain sake, but looked bad while doing something half-noble. That's not as fun as being outright moohahaha fun, though? Maybe both? But the crew already have Q to keep them bemused...

I saw Okona more as a Han Solo wannabe.

Kor

 

[Jason W]

All being saved for an epic called The Wrath of Con.

I mean, you joke, but I've always loved internal conflict rather than external. LET'S SEE IT

 

[Mojochi]

So, basically we’ve all identified like…20 plots containing con artists of some variety.

Yes we have. Not to mention that Pakleds & Yridians are entire races of grifters just like Ferengi, & Orions have a slave trade

Plus, much to everyone's dismay, I'm going to point here out that even Vash was running a grift. She was so sketch that even Q liked her

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I forgot the episode, but it was with Q and Picard from Earth's past, I think WWIII, where all soldiers were addicted to a performance enhancing drug, just like the Jem Ha'dar were.

Not ALL soldiers. Just those working for Colonel Green.

(The symbol they wear on their caps is Green's.)

 

[Orphalesion]

Not ALL soldiers. Just those working for Colonel Green.

(The symbol they wear on their caps is Green's.)

When was that established?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

When was that established?

Technically it wasn't, but it was going to.

There was going to be an arc in ENT about Colonel Green which established that the symbol was his. They had props made up and everything. But the whole thing got cancelled when Brent Spiner expressed interest in being on the show. So they did the Arik Soong arc instead.

Still, though, whether or not you believe what I just said, those soldiers obviously had ties to the bad guys in WWIII anyway, since we actually see them in action in the courtroom scenes in "Encounter at Farpoint"...

 

[Orphalesion]

Technically it wasn't, but it was going to.

There was going to be an arc in ENT about Colonel Green which established that the symbol was his. They had props made up and everything. But the whole thing got cancelled when Brent Spiner expressed interest in being on the show. So they did the Arik Soong arc instead.

Still, though, whether or not you believe what I just said, those soldiers obviously had ties to the bad guys in WWIII anyway, since we actually see them in action in the courtroom scenes in "Encounter at Farpoint"...

Oh I believe you, but that still means it wasn't actually established.

As to the soldiers clearly being linked to the "bad guys". Well, I actually think it makes for a stronger story if there were no "good guys"" in World War III and the drugged soldiers and kangaroo courtroom are just what sheer brutal attrition and the horrors of prolonged nuclear war has turned humanity into.