Which 23rd Century is canon?

[Nerys Myk]

No, Lord Garth has it right.

Three main types... TOS/TAS, DISCO, and all others.

Disagree. DISCO Klingons are just TMP+ Klingons turned up to 11.

 

[Therin of Andor]

There is, but I doubt we'll see much of the Disco Klingons again, if ever.

Seems to me that the actor who played L'Rell, Mary Chieffo, garnered quite a following and I am sure L'Rell will bob up again somewhere.

Meanwhile, the "what are the Klingons up to in the new century where DSC is now?" is bound to be answered.

Yup it does. I mean, how do you explain the TMP Klingons vs. the variety of Klingons in TUC? What's the acceptable answer?

The Klingon Empire has many and varied clines, plus centuries of interbreeding.

 

[fireproof78]

as said multiple times: just because something was done badly in the past it doesn’t mean current writers are excused if they do the same errors.
Also, this is not always true: see the LACK of plots about lack of dilitium in shows set in the 24th century, where it’s no longer an issue, for example. Or how the transporters are much more capable when in TOS they were much more limited.

As I said it's for drama. If it happened in the past I'm just fine by it.

Mileage will vary.

The Klingon Empire has many and varied clines, plus centuries of interbreeding.

One would think.

 

[Tuskin38]

Seems to me that the actor who played L'Rell, Mary Chieffo, garnered quite a following and I am sure L'Rell will bob up again somewhere.

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[jackoverfull]

Tech works with the need of the plot. This is true across all genres.

except that there was no need here: they could have obtained the same results without messing up what they themselves had established.
They decided that the 32nd century transporters were decentralised early in season 3 and totally forgot about it some ten episodes later.

 

[fireproof78]

So Star Trek? Cause that reminds me of DS9 forgetting how a transporter works.

 

[Nerys Myk]

except that there was no need here: they could have obtained the same results without messing up what they themselves had established.
They decided that the 32nd century transporters were decentralised early in season 3 and totally forgot about it some ten episodes later.

Plot is king.

 

[Farscape One]

So Star Trek? Cause that reminds me of DS9 forgetting how a transporter works.

What do you mean DS9 forgot how transporters work?

 

[Dukhat]

Disagree. DISCO Klingons are just TMP+ Klingons turned up to 11.

Other than speaking the same language, having some bumps on their foreheads, and having some bladed weapons, they’re pretty damn different from the TMP+ Klingons.

 

[Lord Garth]

Seems to me that the actor who played L'Rell, Mary Chieffo, garnered quite a following and I am sure L'Rell will bob up again somewhere.

I'm sure L'Rell will appear again at some point too, and I happen to be a fan of the character, but I think they'll keep toning down the makeup. Just like S2 of DSC toned down the Klingon makeup from S1.

If I turn out to be wrong, I'll turn out to be wrong, but I'll tell you why I think this.

Meanwhile, the "what are the Klingons up to in the new century where DSC is now?" is bound to be answered.

I don't know how much of the DSC Forum you've read, but at some point I speculated that I didn't think we'd see Klingons in DSC again until Worf made an appearance in PIC (I never doubted we'd have seen all of the TNG characters by the time PIC would end) and other Klingon designs had been re-introduced in live-action Trek. Which will have happened as of a few months from now.

What I think they'll do in DSC is have TNG Klingons mixed with DSC Klingons, but gradually phase out DSC Klingons in favor of the TNG Klingons. I'm basing this off the idea that DSC was a visual reboot and they've been slowly toning it down to some type of happy medium ever since DSC Season 2.

PIC, visually, looks like a balance between DSC and the TNG Movies. SNW, visually, looks like what happens when you mix DSC with TOS. With the exception of the Ferengi, all the races reintroduced in DSC from the third season on look more-or-less like they did during Berman Trek. And the ship designs and set designs we see now in DSC are specific to the 32nd Century, which makes DSC less of a visual reboot than it was before. In terms of revising the visuals: If TNG, DS9, and VOY are at a 0, and DSC Season 1 is at a 100, then current DSC, PIC, and SNW are more like they're at a 50. If that makes sense. That's the way I see it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

You're seeing the same world through different eyes.

That's great if you like stories and television. It's awful if you like technical schematics of starships and feel the need to index the ethnicities of Klingons.

 

[Lynx]

I think the TMP Klingons is one of the best versions. Instead of just a lumpy forehead it looked like the spine came up from behind the skull and over the top for leverage. Great design for a warrior race and a better design than humans with the skull bobbng a top of a rod. It did take years yo resolve the TOS vs modern klingons in Enterprise, but I think they did that well. I can just imagine the shock that just a couple of Augments could take over a fully crewed Klingon vessel so quickly, naturally the KDF would want to gain that ability

Personally I find them horrible. I prefer the Klingons from TNG, DS9 and VOY (if we coun't B'Elanna).

Romulans and Vulcans have appeared in all of the 24th century (and beyond) Trek series. And no doubt will continue to do so.

Well, if they simply label DSC events as "The DSC timeline", go back to the drawing table and restore Romulus in some future series. Otherwise we are stuck with the Romulcans.

There isn't one. This is a different continuity. Is that so hard to understand?

It's still a bit silly.

Sure, if you're a middle class white man, it was great. And as a middle class white kid who grew up in the 60's I would know,. How about you what's your connection to the 60's? You live through it or did you just watch a bunch of TV reruns and listen to some old comedy records and think "That's the 60's"? People of color, gays and those out of the mainstream, might have a different view

As for "dystopian"

Everyone has a different opinion of everything, depending on where they were at that time. If I had lived in China or North Korea, I dont think that I would have found any decade from then up to now particularily funny. Compared to that, even the worst possible life in the US or some other Western country could be at least acceptable. However, I do get the imppression that the 60's was a much more fun time to live in for many people then the current dystopian 2020's with its constant doomsday predictions, lousy music and doom-and-gloom movies and TV-series.

There is another thing you could do.

Oh, someone has run out of arguments and starts coming up with personal attacks!

I don't think "horrifying" was mentioned. Just more alien. The make up department has created several new aliens, demonstrating considerable skill.

It's not about the make-up department. It's about the producers who came up with the "Turtles".

Hasn't happened yet.

But will probably happen considering how books and future series mostly adapts to changes, good or bad.

Give this person the Medal of Freedom and a Noble Prize.
Have some perspective, it's entertainment.

Honestly, I would probably deserve that more than some poster who can't manage to have a cordial, sincere debate without having to come up with personal attacks. This whole thread is filled stupid comments from you.

Must be more to locker room hijinks than I thought if hybrids are being produced when teams merge.

Well, you do take all the chances to twist everything around, don't you?
I thought you should understand that what I mention was just one example of bad mergers, I could have mentioned some companies, firms or other groups of interest as well, even societies. Just look what become of Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union. It didn't work!

 

[Lynx]

oh, stop it, this is totally in your head.

We'll see.

As you have been told multiple times, Discovery has nothing to do with the destruction of Romulus.

I stand corrected, it was in PIC. But still a very stupid idea which might ruin one of Star Treks most interesting species.

Once more, you are making wild assumptions on things you have no knowledge of.

We'll see. I'll keep an eye on this. If I'm wrong, I will apologize and admit my mistake.

I don’t follow sports team, but scientifically speaking Spock is totally right.

Perhaps scientifically but not when it comes to companies, sports teams, groups created for certain interests or countries.

I didn’t mention the special effects at all. It’s mainly the pacing of the movie I found unbearably slow.

But it's just that I find so fascinating, the creeping feeling that something might be out there.....

 

[jackoverfull]

So Star Trek? Cause that reminds me of DS9 forgetting how a transporter works.

And when that would be?

Plot is king.

again, plot has nothing to do with this. Just say that the radiation from the station prevents transport and you don’t need to contradict what you yourself established a few episodes ago, for example.

We'll see.

Unlikely. But so far it’s all in your head.

I stand corrected, it was in PIC.

Nope. It was in Star Trek 2009, as multiple posters already wrote you. Not big on reading?

But still a very stupid idea which might ruin one of Star Treks most interesting species.

nope. It just moved them to a new phase, just like making the Klingons allied with the federation and THEN having them as enemies again for a while brought up interesting storylines.

We'll see. I'll keep an eye on this. If I'm wrong, I will apologize and admit my mistake.

So you won’t admit your mistake until something that hasn’t happened yet keeps not happening?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Other than speaking the same language, having some bumps on their foreheads, and having some bladed weapons, they’re pretty damn different from the TMP+ Klingons.

Not much.


Early design for "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" Klingon Captain, Starlog, April 1980 by Ian McLean, on Flickr

It's not about the make-up department. It's about the producers who came up with the "Turtles"!

DSC's Klingons? You mean Robert Fletcher, TMP Costume Designer, 1978.

Honestly, I would probably deserve that more than some poster who can't manage to have a cordial, sincere debate without having to come up with personal attacks. This whole thread is filled stupid comments from you.

Pot, meet kettle. "Stupid comments" is hardly "cordial" either. If you don't like such behaviour, please don't return it.

 

[Lynx]

Unlikely. But so far it’s all in your head.

"It's in your heeeead, in your heeeead, Zombie, Zombie, Zombie, ih,ih, oh......."
Ooops, sorry that was The Cranberries and totally of topic even if it actually is a good song. However, i couldn't help coming up with thatthat, just saw the resemblance in what you wrote.

Anyway, it's not totally in my head since both authors and writers have the habit of including such changes in their work, how stupid those changes might ever be. It's always a risk that the Romulcans will show up in a future series or book set in the 24th century.

Nope. It was in Star Trek 2009, as multiple posters already wrote you. Not big on reading?

Rather me being confused by all those different imelines and contradictions in all those movies and series.
Anyway, I'm happy that it wasn't in PIC since I was starting to think that it had happened in some episode I haven't seen or whatever. I still find PIC rather OK to watch even if I'm not to happy with it eiter. But at least it's a 24th century series and I hope that it won't be affecter by neither Romulcans, nor "Turtles".

. It just moved them to a new phase, just like making the Klingons allied with the federation and THEN having them as enemies again for a while brought up interesting storylines.

I had nothing against that Klingon scenario, except for the in-universe scenario when the Federation and Klingons became enemies due to the Cardassian situation. A mistake from the Federation government as I see it. But a an interesting plot actually.

The problem with the Romulan situation is basicalli the destruction of Romulus and the Romulan Empire whic wil turn the Romulans into nothing more than refugees in Vulcan territyry which is not a good scenario as I see it.

So you won’t admit your mistake until something that hasn’t happened yet keeps not happening?[/QUOTE] In this case, I might have to do so.
It's like living near a big dam when I see cracks in the dam and polit it out to the authorities who constantly states that there is no danger.
IF the dam holds, then I might apologize to them for being wrong but if the dam breaks, then I must accuse them for being ignorant and don't listen to the warning.

Not much.


Early design for "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" Klingon Captain, Starlog, April 1980 by Ian McLean, on Flickr



DSC's Klingons? You mean Robert Fletcher, TMP Costume Designer, 1978.

OH dear, the Turtles were invented already back then.

If the Klingons had showed up this way back in 1980, then it would have been a different thing. Anyway, I'm happy that we didn't have to see those "Klingons" in the TOS movies, TNG or DS9.

Pot, meet kettle. "Stupid comments" is hardly "cordial" either. If you don't like such behaviour, please don't return it.

You do have a point here, But if certain posters come up with personal attacks on me instead of debating the actual topic, then I might find that "stupid".
Anyway, I'd already made the decision not to continue the debate with that person. Even when it comes to things where we actually have a somewhat cordial debate, we are still far from any agreement.

 

[1001001]

Anyway, this thread has become ridiculously circular. Lynx you have been particularly unpleasant. And perhaps most tellingly the OP never actually returned to respond to this thread.

Closing.