And here we go again............... :(

[Lynx]

Or more correctly, I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore.

Once again the quality of the problem with DVD:s has hit me.

Some of you might remember that I'd suffered from problems with the DS9 DVD:s for a couple of years.

Fron 2013 when I finally gave up every hope of any channel in my are airing this series and bought it all on DVD and until 2019 I had constant trouble with the DS9 DVD.s which you can read everything about here:

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/what-the-is-wrong-with-my-ds9-dvd-s.262327/

and here:

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-quality-of-ds9-dvd-s-again-and-how-angry-i-am-now.298231/

Since 2019 everything has worked perfectly and I really thought that all problems with watching Deep Space Nine on DVD when I want was over.

Which turned out to be stupid wishful thinking!

Tonight I was watching What We Leave Behind as the final of another wonderful DS9 Rewatch from start to finish when the nightmare started again.

In the scene when Garak is about to shoot Weyoun, the screen froze.

OK, I managed to fast-play through the scene and back to "safe land" again but the problem remains, the DVD disc is damaged. Cleaning it, cleaning the DVD player, testing it in the computer and on a neighbor's DVD-Blue Ray player only confirms that there is a problem.

So it's alla about open the wallet and hope that I get an example of the box set where the DVD:s will last longer than three years. However, I have my doubts that they will due to the horrible bad quality of all Star Trek DVD:s.

It's especially annoying since I recently had to buy a new TNG box since I discovered a similar problem on the episode Preemptive Strike. However, that DVD box did at least last for five years before any problem occurred.

The only exception is the examples of seasons 1, 2 and 3 of Star Trek Voyager I bought in 2006. They are still in excellent quality!

I also have some older movies from The Days Of The DVD Dawn which are still in excellent shape.

I don't understand why the quality is so bad on the Star Trek DVD:s. They should last longer than three years. In fact, this is the third time I watch this episode since buying the box, due to the fact that my "DS9 Relaunch" lasts from Christmas Eve to this time of year.

My first thought is to buy a new box. But the reviews of the newest released DS9 box I've found on Amazon doesn't encourage me to buy anything. So what can I do?

Is there ore will there be any release of DS9 on Blu-Ray?

Is there any good box set of DS9 to buy anywhere?

[content removed by moderator]

In short: What the **** can I do about this constant problem?

Every suggestion is appreciated, except from anything which has to do with "streaming". I'm not gonna pay a monthly sum to some imbecile streaming company and after about three seasons, I'll be met with "Sorry but this series is no longer available here". And when I contact them, I will get the answer that "We no longer have the rights to Star Trek Deep Space Nine but we have all seasons of Star Trek Discovery which you can watch instead." Such a reply would obviously turn me into a total destructive lunatic and I hope to avoid that.

 

[douwed]

You could buy the last season again and rip all the files to your computer. It's what I did and it works fine. You could stream them from your computer to a smart TV using plex for instance.

It's probably not what Paramount would like you to do, but it is legal to make a copy for your own use, at least it is in Europe.

 

[Lynx]

You could buy the last season again and rip all the files to your computer. It's what I did and it works fine. You could stream them from your computer to a smart TV using plex for instance.

It's probably not what Paramount would like you to do, but it is legal to make a copy for your own use, at least it is in Europe.

It's a bit of a grayzone actually. I get the impression that there are different laws in different European countries.

And I've actually been very honest when it comes to respect the laws.

90% of the time I go for legal stuff. The rest is when I simply can't get a certain record or movie because it's out of production and impossible to but legally.

But in this case, I'm a bit p***ed with Paramount because this is happening over and over and over and over again.

Ever since 2013 I've had all those problems with malfunctioning DVD:s. recently I had to buy a new TNG box and now this.

And it's no meaning in trying to write to Paramount. They simply don't reply!

Whic I find very rude and arrogant, especially since this is a recurring problem. I mean, if I had a firm which would get a lot of bad publicity for its bad CD:s and DVD:s, Then I would do something about it and explain in a press release that "We have sorted out the problems and have new equipment so in the future our discs will be of high quality".

But not Paramount, they simply don't give a d**n!

It's also typical that the only DVD:s I have with those problems are Star Trek DVD:s, except for those Voyager DVD:s I bought in 2006. For some strange reason they still works.

Not to mention a bunch of movies and series which I bought between 2006 and 2013 which still works.

Just in case, I asked a retailer in my town of there were anr risk that a bad DVD player could damage a disc but according to the salesman I spoke with, that's not possible. The only thing is if some dirt comes into the player and mine is clean.

 

[fireproof78]

Whic I find very rude and arrogant, especially since this is a recurring problem. I mea, if I had a firm which would get a lot of bad publicity for its bad CD:s and DVD:s, Then I would do something about it and explain in a press release that "We have sorted out the problems and have new equipment so in the future our discs will be of high quality".

So where's the bad publicity for Paramount now?

 

[Lynx]

So where's the bad publicity for Paramount now?

If I see a lot of complaints on Amazon and other forums, incuding this one about the constant low quality of their DVD discs which Paramount is pestering the buyers of their DVD.s with, then I would call it bad publicity.

 

[fireproof78]

If I see a lot of complaints on Amazon and other forums, incuding this one about the constant low quality of their DVD discs which Paramount is pestering the buyers of their DVD.s with, then I would call it bad publicity.

Fair enough. I was curious to see how high the furor had risen. See, bad publicity in of itself is not necessarily a bad thing in business. It's when it impacts their revenue that they become concerned. So, despite the complaints, has it impacted revenue?

If not, I would say that finding similar minded people with your experiences would generate more impact.

 

[Lynx]

Fair enough. I was curious to see how high the furor had risen. See, bad publicity in of itself is not necessarily a bad thing in business. It's when it impacts their revenue that they become concerned. So, despite the complaints, has it impacted revenue?

If not, I would say that finding similar minded people with your experiences would generate more impact.

I don't know if or how it has impacted revenue. Probably not since those who like Star Trek and would like to have the DVD.s must buy Paramounts products because there are no others, except for illegal stuff which falls of the radar when it comes to sales and such.

The problem with Paramount is that they simply don't care!
Which is rude, offensive and a s***ty attitude to those who buy their products and pay their d**n wages.

There is something called decency, which the hotshots of Paramount totally lacks.
Otherwise they shouldn't continue to sell second-rate products year after year without donin ganytning about the problem.

But decency is a rare commodity in a world which is getting worse and worse for every day.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't know if or how it has impacted revenue. Probably not since those who like Star Trek and would like to have the DVD.s must buy Paramounts products because there are no others, except for illegal stuff which falls of the radar when it comes to sales and such.

The problem with Paramount is that they simply don't care!
Which is rude, offensive and a s***ty attitude to those who buy their products and pay their d**n wages.

There is something called decency, which the hotshots of Paramount totally lacks.
Otherwise they shouldn't continue to sell second-rate products year after year without donin ganytning about the problem.

But decency is a rare commodity in a world which is getting worse and worse for every day.

The only way to hold them accountable is to make them aware and impact what they care about. One, this assumes that those in charge of the DVD section know that there is a consistent problem with their product. Two, it assumes that it is a large enough problem for them to research it, i.e. invest time and money in to it, and three that there is a fix that won't cost them even more money.

You can be decent, but they also are not just going to throw money away for no good reason, because of a random defect. Case in point. I used to work for a retailer and we had a very popular model of shoe by Nike. And we would regularly get them returned, probably two or three a quarter, for "squeaking soles" from different customers. I spoke with the buyer in charge of that section who reached out to Nike. Finally, he got an answer. They didn't know. They had know idea why this particular model of shoe would have the occasional shoe that would squeak as it did. So, they took the shoes back, gave us credit for it, and kept making it. Because it wasn't worth the time and money to replace what was otherwise an extremely poplar model.

ETA: Let me be clear that I am not diminishing the frustration. But, I'm also a deeply pragmatic person who thinks that if they are not listening then it makes sense to take available avenues to make your point, i.e. finding more people who have your experience, sending more messages, letters, etc. Potentially not purchasing Paramount products. It's extreme, but then how else to react in the face of what you describe as them being indecent?

 

[TheSeeker]

I'm locking this thread until I can decide to what to do about the blatant advocacy of illegal pirating in the OP.

 

[TheSeeker]

Okay. I'm opening this up again, but I do not want to see any discussion which suggests pirating content is okay. @Lynx , I'm giving you a free pass on this one, but if it happens again I'll be forced to issue an infraction.

And for what it's worth, I do sympathize with your situation.

 

[Lynx]

Okay. I'm opening this up again, but I do not want to see any discussion which suggests pirating content is okay. @Lynx , I'm giving you a free pass on this one, but if it happens again I'll be forced to issue an infraction.

And for what it's worth, I do sympathize with your situation.

Thanks!

I sincerely apologize for the now removed comment. It was never my intention to break any rules, just me being really angry over another box of DVD.s ruined and another sum of money to waste on the same things again.

You know, I really thought it was over, that the DVD.s in the box I bought in 2019 was of better quality than the previous ones.

And thanks for your sympathy!

 

[Lynx]

The only way to hold them accountable is to make them aware and impact what they care about. One, this assumes that those in charge of the DVD section know that there is a consistent problem with their product. Two, it assumes that it is a large enough problem for them to research it, i.e. invest time and money in to it, and three that there is a fix that won't cost them even more money.

You can be decent, but they also are not just going to throw money away for no good reason, because of a random defect. Case in point. I used to work for a retailer and we had a very popular model of shoe by Nike. And we would regularly get them returned, probably two or three a quarter, for "squeaking soles" from different customers. I spoke with the buyer in charge of that section who reached out to Nike. Finally, he got an answer. They didn't know. They had know idea why this particular model of shoe would have the occasional shoe that would squeak as it did. So, they took the shoes back, gave us credit for it, and kept making it. Because it wasn't worth the time and money to replace what was otherwise an extremely poplar model.

ETA: Let me be clear that I am not diminishing the frustration. But, I'm also a deeply pragmatic person who thinks that if they are not listening then it makes sense to take available avenues to make your point, i.e. finding more people who have your experience, sending more messages, letters, etc. Potentially not purchasing Paramount products. It's extreme, but then how else to react in the face of what you describe as them being indecent?

Well, that's exactly what I'm trying to do by my complaints here, not only to blow off some frustration.

The problem is that they don't seem to care. I mean, there are a lot of complaints about this on many places, like Amazon with the reviews of the products there and on other SF-forums.

And as I wrote before, the problem with stop buying Paramount products is that they are the only ones to produce those DVD:s.

Which is also a reason for my frustration. I can't go to another shop or buy DS9 on DVD.s which are produced by another company. I'm stuck with Paramounts sub-standard products and the fact that I have to buy them over and over again.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, that's exactly what I'm trying to do by my complaints here, not only to blow off some frustration.

The problem is that they don't seem to care. I mean, there are a lot of complaints about this on many places, like Amazon with the reviews of the products there and on other SF-forums.

And as I wrote before, the problem with stop buying Paramount products is that they are the only ones to produce those DVD:s.

Which is also a reason for my frustration. I can't go to another shop or buy DS9 on DVD.s which are produced by another company. I'm stuck with Paramounts sub-standard products and the fact that I have to buy them over and over again.

But, Amazon is not Paramount so those complaints will mean nothing to them. Or other forums. None of that is actually directed at Paramount, or Viacom, or both. Complaints at the store level (which Amazon is) will net you little, at least in my experience. Complaints sent to the corporate level will mean more, but it requires effort. Because I can assure you that a lot of those complaints on forums, Amazon, Google or whatnot don't rise to the level of Paramount/Viacom/CBS looking at it as worth the money to address, if they are aware of it at all.

Here's some suggestions from another forum, including a phone number potentially for the studio. I don't know since I didn't call it.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Many DVD collectors have resolved freezing issues by updating their device's firmware and/or buying a higher quality of connector leads. Disc-rot on older discs is seemingly also a problem for some people but that will vary on whether you store your DVDs in a humidity-controlled environment, and how often you use them.

Eventually, Paramount will upgrade DS9 and VGR to something that will play on 4K monitors, but not by the time-consuming method used to remaster TOS and TNG, which was not profitable (at least not in the short term). But the more time that passes, the better/cheaper the tech becomes. (Some fans are now upgrading scenes to HD on their own home equipment.) If Paramount makes no attempt to upgrade DS9 and VGR, the two series fade into obscurity.

 

[kkt]

Lynx, I'm sorry you're having so much trouble. Very frustrating. Just as a data point, I have a DS9 set bought about 2002 ish and watched all the way through at least once a year, plus individual episodes, and so far I haven't had any trouble.

I am not sure if series presented on DVD will necessarily fade to obscurity. I have older movies and TV shows than Star Trek that still have a small but enthusiastic audience. If they're going to play with the content of the screen or the aspect ratio, I'd just as soon they left it alone.

 

[Lynx]

But, Amazon is not Paramount so those complaints will mean nothing to them. Or other forums. None of that is actually directed at Paramount, or Viacom, or both. Complaints at the store level (which Amazon is) will net you little, at least in my experience. Complaints sent to the corporate level will mean more, but it requires effort. Because I can assure you that a lot of those complaints on forums, Amazon, Google or whatnot don't rise to the level of Paramount/Viacom/CBS looking at it as worth the money to address, if they are aware of it at all.

Here's some suggestions from another forum, including a phone number potentially for the studio. I don't know since I didn't call it.

Thanks for advices and trying to help out.

Obviously this is a big issue. I can see your point bout complaining on different forums. What I hope is that it will lead to a reaction among dissatisfied customers and result in people starting to complain to Paramount itself.

But as I wrote before, I've sent many mails to Paramount and they simly don't reply. Since I live in Europe, contacting them on the phone can be a costly effort and I've spent enough money on Paramount as it is. However, it vcan be a future option for me.

But I wonder what the result will be. Considering the fact that I did participate in a letter campaign to have Kes returning to Voyager and the result was a horrible episode where the character was humiliated and destroyed. So a similar action when it comes to complaining about the low quality of the DVD.s might result in new DVD.s from paramount which explodes after being wiewed three times. Paramount don't like those who complain.

Many DVD collectors have resolved freezing issues by updating their device's firmware and/or buying a higher quality of connector leads. Disc-rot on older discs is seemingly also a problem for some people but that will vary on whether you store your DVDs in a humidity-controlled environment, and how often you use them.

Eventually, Paramount will upgrade DS9 and VGR to something that will play on 4K monitors, but not by the time-consuming method used to remaster TOS and TNG, which was not profitable (at least not in the short term). But the more time that passes, the better/cheaper the tech becomes. (Some fans are now upgrading scenes to HD on their own home equipment.) If Paramount makes no attempt to upgrade DS9 and VGR, the two series fade into obscurity.

Well, I'm no electrician so I don't want to meddle with things I don't know about.
Would it be an idea to buy a new DVD or Blu-ray player?

As for my DVD:s, I'm very careful with them and have them stored in a locker in a storage room with no sunshine and humidity at all. As I wrote before, this was the fourth time I've watched this episode on this DVD since I bought them in 2019.

I must also point out that it is the TNG and DS9 DVD.s that has been a continuing headache since the beginning of 2013 as you can see in the links in my original post. I have other series on DVD, most likely The X-files, CSI NY and the western Macahan Family (with James Arness as Zeb Macahan and Harris Yulin as the villain Deek Peasley) which I've probably watched as many times or more than those Star Trek DVD.s. Not to mention the first three seasons of Star Trek Voyager which I bouggt back in 2006 and they still works fine ahd some movies too.

I really hope that they will do something about those DVD:s or come up with better things for the future. A still thriving Star Trek society would be a good reason for not letting DS9 and VOY fall into obscurity, wouldn't it?

Anyway, thanks for your comments and trying to help out!

Lynx, I'm sorry you're having so much trouble. Very frustrating. Just as a data point, I have a DS9 set bought about 2002 ish and watched all the way through at least once a year, plus individual episodes, and so far I haven't had any trouble.

I am not sure if series presented on DVD will necessarily fade to obscurity. I have older movies and TV shows than Star Trek that still have a small but enthusiastic audience. If they're going to play with the content of the screen or the aspect ratio, I'd just as soon they left it alone.

"Frustrating" is actually an understatement. Maybe I shoud call it "The Never-Ending Nightmare""

There must have been better quality in the beginning of the 2000's. I bought seasons 1, 2 and 3 of VOY in 2006 and they still work fine.

As for now, DVD.s are the way to store and view such things. If there are any changes, I hope that Star Trek is popular enough to survive such changes. But if the rather obscure (but good) german SF-series Raumpatrouille (Space Patrol) can be bought on DVD even now, the chance for the still popular Star Trek shows to be produced on future media should be even bigger.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Well, I'm no electrician so I don't want to meddle with things I don't know about.

"Update firmware" should be a selection you can make. It is extremely important as your machine starts to age.

Would it be an idea to buy a new DVD or Blu-ray player?

Sure, but first I would take the connector leads to a DVD/Blu-Ray store and ask if there are better ones available for your model.

You should also try the problem discs in a friend's (or the store's) player and see if the freezing issue is in the same place as in your player.

As for my DVD:s, I'm very careful with them and have them stored in a locker in a storage room with no sunshine and humidity at all.

Perhaps too cold/damp?

 

[Guy Gardener]

https://help.paramountplus.com/s/ar...eo-to-watch-offline-on-demand#downloadoffline

This is not helpful, but its funny to see the limits they are imposing on us.

1. Install Paramount +
2. Give them money.
3. Upgrade to Paramount + Premium.
4. Give them more money.
5. You can "download" 25 episodes/movies to your library folder on only 5 different devices, legally before reaching a download limit.
6. Every movie/episode you have downloaded will expire after 30 days.
7. Give them more money.

Or you just stick to streaming, which is an annual subscription of $49.99 to $119.99 (depending on the plan you want) which gives you access to all of Star Trek new and old, until you run out of money.

 

[Relayer1]

Not a solution and of course you shouldn't have to, but...

If there's a sizeable enough community out there suffering with bad disc or two in a set, is there an opportunity for people in your situation with several "incomplete" sets ?

If it's not the same disc(s) every time it may be possible to cannibalise the spoiled sets and swap discs with other sufferers to replace the faulty ones you need.

 

[Guy Gardener]

In gaming DVD and Bluray are dead media.

You buy an empty box from the game store, with a serial number which you use to unlock a website, where you down the game onto your console's hard drive.

The game is non transferable and you can only use the a serial a limited number of times. Your console is going to fill up fast and then you're going to have to start deleting games to make room for more games.

This might be the future of home media if streaming isn't.

Maybe you might want to consider a parallel shift to Bluray before the Future arrives?

The real issue will be when "they" stop making DVD players to replace your broken DVD player