What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[plynch]

Here's my follow up question: How does it cheapen the franchise? Now, I may be rather vapid or shallow in my thinking because I hear this a lot in the genre fiction side of things, and was recently accused (not here) of being "part of the problem" for daring to think that an adaptation of a work existing was somehow not taking away from the original work.

I don’t think it cheapens the franchise, myself. Just that the “Don’t watch it” argument doesn’t work as a response to all people who think there’s too much Trek. In fact I think someone could make a case that even if I liked all X series currently running, the cumulative effect would not be a good. So the “Don’t watch it” arg would be especially moot.

Also I do not care about the Trek brand or franchise, actually. Be well.

Edit, that sounds really babyish. It’s just that I don’t have feelings for if people like the behemoth called Star Trek. Everyone’s mmv and I have things to really care about, not if ppl dig the totality or pieces of an sf thing. Peace out.

 

[Ragitsu]

I probably would have had her wear normal clothes while off-duty or counseling (where the uniform of a superior officer might be intimidating), but stick to the uniform on the bridge.

I am not a fan of the underlying impetus behind the decision.

It really did make her seem more like a professional Starfleet officer.

Also: a uniform is not a requirement for professional behavior.

 

[Paul755]

Just to show I can be controversial about Trek, here's a big one.

In many ways, the Enterprise crew would have been better off if Jellico had stayed after Chain of Command. Yes, it's known, I'm not his staunchest advocate; the man did make some mistakes. But consider...

Picard: Picard has just recovered from days of horrific torture at the hands of Gul Macet, which actually broke him. Realistically, he would be dealing with some serious psychological issues, and need to go to Earth or maybe Betazed for treatment.

Riker: Not even Picard's boot up his keister in BoBW1 was enough to dislodge Riker from his position, but I think a few more days of head butting with Jellico would do the job just fine. Riker grabs the first command available, and his career is back on track ten years early. Maybe he makes admiral himself.

Data: Data handled Jellico's no-nonsense command style just fine, and received the job he spent years earning. He would have continued to do it well.

Worf: He respects Picard greatly, of course... but Jellico is a WARRIOR captain. Worf will thrive. And, I think that when Jellico is promoted to Admiral and given a squadron during the Dominion war, Worf and Data both get their own ships.

Crusher: Difficult transition for her. Maybe in time, she realizes that there is a method to Jellico's madness: saving the lives of his people. Just like hers. Or, maybe she goes back to Starfleet Medical.

LaForge: Once Geordi has made the changes Jellico mandates, he only has to maintain them, and his workload tapers off. And, as we see in other episodes, Geordi can connect with anybody.

Troi: Like Riker, Troi doesn't do well here. While I think she quickly grows to like the uniform (and will keep wearing it), the fact remains that Jellico doesn't listen to her, so she can't do her job. I like to think she gets an invitation to join Riker, and takes it.

I think this is pretty much spot on to what would have happened had Jellico stayed. Except for maybe Worf and Data getting their own ships. I could see Worf still moving on to DS9 when the E-D gets blowed up.

Weird: I was just thinking of commenting on Troi's adoption of a standard-issue Starfleet uniform.

Some people believe that change to be "great" or even "cool", but I thoroughly detest that alteration; it's an unfortunate bit of military conformity in a future - and a society - that doesn't neatly align with twentieth/twenty-first century military conventions. Then again, DS9 was almost on the scene around this time, so...a harder edge/darker-and-edgier coloring bleeding over onto late-series TNG was not exactly surprising (but still unfortunate).

I think if she’s going to be on duty on the bridge she should be in uniform. If she’s holding office hours or something, her usual outfits would be fine.

then again, I don’t think she should have had a permanent spot on the bridge.

 

[Ragitsu]

Even more troubling is the fact that she never decided to wear those threads prior to this point and then decides - inexplicably - to stick with it after the crisis has concluded. A sentence or two of in-universe dialogue could have helped to sell the change. Nope...this clearly came across as corporate/writer's politics or perhaps simple preference leaking into the show.

 

[JoseNoodles]

Even more troubling is the fact that she never decided to wear those threads prior to this point and then decides - inexplicably - to stick with it after the crisis has concluded. A sentence or two of in-universe dialogue could have helped to sell the change. Nope...this clearly came across as corporate/writer's politics or perhaps simple preference leaking into the show.

Troi taking the exam to gain a formal rank in "Thine Own Self" seemed like an ex-post-facto explanation of why she was now wearing a uniform regularly. I just don't understand why she ended up out-ranking Data, other than to have that dumb joke at the end of the episode.

 

[fireproof78]

I don’t think it cheapens the franchise, myself. Just that the “Don’t watch it” argument doesn’t work as a response to all people who think there’s too much Trek. In fact I think someone could make a case that even if I liked all X series currently running, the cumulative effect would not be a good. So the “Don’t watch it” arg would be especially moot.

Also I do not care about the Trek brand or franchise, actually. Be well.

Edit, that sounds really babyish. It’s just that I don’t have feelings for if people like the behemoth called Star Trek. Everyone’s mmv and I have things to really care about, not if ppl dig the totality or pieces of an sf thing. Peace out.

Well, I struck a nerve. Peace to you on this day.

All I will say about it when I say "Don't watch." is this: I would rather people find things they enjoy, consistently, to watch, rather than watching Star Trek because "Star Trek." Star Trek is definitely better as large number of parts, rather than one constituent whole. It's more dynamic, adds different flavors without concern over each others particular continuity.

I think if she’s going to be on duty on the bridge she should be in uniform. If she’s holding office hours or something, her usual outfits would be fine.

then again, I don’t think she should have had a permanent spot on the bridge.

Exactly so. She is an oficer, exists within a reporting chain, and carries a rank of commander.

 

[Oddish]

just don't understand why she ended up out-ranking Data, other than to have that dumb joke at the end of the episode.

The problem wasn't so much her as it was Data. He should have gotten his third gold pip for saving humanity from the Borg. Or exposing the Romulan involvement in the Klingon civil war. Pick one.

 

[Farscape One]

The problem wasn't so much her as it was Data. He should have gotten his third gold pip for saving humanity from the Borg. Or exposing the Romulan involvement in the Klingon civil war. Pick one.

Or simply the fact he was Second Officer of a ship with 1,000 people.

Crusher was a full commander, but that could easily be explained as a needed rank for a ship that size. Although dialogue in "Thine Own Self" retcons this sort of by the conversation in the teaser.

Despite the scenario being fake, the command structure in "Conundrum" should have been the norm. Captain, and both XO and Second Officer being full commanders. (I sometimes wonder if that was some slight wink to the audience.)

 

[Lord Garth]

Also…she was right!

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[Delta Vega]

I agree and disagree.

On the one hand, I've started tuning some of them out. On the other hand, there's something for everyone now, unless they're dead-set determined to hate all Star Trek made after 2005.

No, don't get me wrong, I like, even love some incarnations of Trek, but my own circumstances are such that I've fallen behind on some of the new stuff
I haven't seen SNW at all, nor Disco since Season 2 finale due to the nature of how Trek is now shown. I don't have access to streaming services like Paramount+ eg. Lower Decks, Prodigy, Picard etc, are all a mystery to me, although I was never aTNG fan so I'm not fussed about old baldy. For me, its just a personal thing, too many to catch up on, some don't interest me.
I appreciate that others will be delighted that there is so much going on.

 

[Farscape One]

Speaking of the current era...

While Alex Kurtzman may have his faults, assuring there is a variety of STAR TREK to cater to a wide array of fans is a big strength of his. I think that is very healthy for a franchise, and we get to watch in real time the franchise not only be revived but truly flourish.

And while I don't agree with some of the choices, I absolutely acknowledge and appreciate the fact we have a thriving STAR TREK now because of this strategy.

It's the same feeling I have with Rick Berman... some faults and things I didn't agree with, but he helped give us some great STAR TREK and kept it going for 18 years straight. I don't think anyone else has been able to do with any franchise for that amount of time. He clearly did a number of things right.

So in the same way I thank Berman for his contributions, I thank Kurtzman for his.

 

[Dee1891]

From the beginning, Star Trek has failed to be as complex and ambiguous as it could be. When it does convey an ambiguous story, the latter never lasts long or there are hardly ever any consequences to the story, especially if Federation or Starfleet major protagonists are the ones who engage in ambiguous behavior. I also believe that Roddenberry's premise of Humans being developed, to the point of nearly being idealized, was a big mistake.

 

[1001001]

I also believe that Roddenberry's premise of Humans being developed, to the point of nearly being idealized, was a big mistake.

That’s probably my favorite part of the whole franchise.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Doesn't that Bird Counselor on Lower Decks also wear a casual suit instead of a uniform?

Is this a "Counselor's Privilege" kind of thing where only "Counselor's" get to wear casual clothing instead of uniforms?

Same in DISCO, the Admiral; who was also a "Counselor" for Doctor Culber, was wearing casual clothes.

 

[Orphalesion]

Doesn't that Bird Counselor on Lower Decks also wear a casual suit instead of a uniform?

Is this a "Counselor's Privilege" kind of thing where only "Counselor's" get to wear casual clothing instead of uniforms?

Same in DISCO, the Admiral; who was also a "Counselor" for Doctor Culber, was wearing casual clothes.

Yeah, that seems to be the official stance on it.

Thing is, that came about as a justification for why Marina Sirtis was put into low-cut costumes while on duty, not the other way around.

 

[fireproof78]

I also believe that Roddenberry's premise of Humans being developed, to the point of nearly being idealized, was a big mistake.

I think the humans should be developed, and have both idealized aspects as well as some deficits, thus providing a point/counterpoint to the choices made.

 

[Orphalesion]

Don't know if that's a "controversial" opinion. But in principle I *like* the idea of the idealized human. I think humanity today is in a better place than it was a hundred years ago and I like the idea that this trend will continue, so I like scifi that works with that idea.

I do think they often went overboard with it, but on principle I think its a good idea. And I think some of that is visible in every Trek series.

Of course all shows were, and are, products of the time, but by now the latest Trek shows give us a universe were people are not judged anymore by their ethnicity, gender, sex or sexual orientation and I think that is something nice and hopeful to see.

 

[Dee1891]

I don't like the idea of idealized Humans. One, we're incapable of being consistently ideal. Two, l think this idealized portrait of Humans and Human society get in the way of creating good stories. I believe some of the best Trek stories have been those in which Human characters are portrayed in a less-than-ideal manner. But Trek refuses to stick with this. Why are Humans so afraid of facing how problematic we truly are as a species? Even in fiction?

 

[fireproof78]

I don't like the idea of idealized Humans. One, we're incapable of being consistently ideal. Two, l think this idealized portrait of Humans and Human society get in the way of creating good stories. I believe some of the best Trek stories have been those in which Human characters are portrayed in a less-than-ideal manner. But Trek refuses to stick with this. Why are Humans so afraid of facing how problematic we truly are as a species? Even in fiction?

Simple: we don't like to believe we are deficient. Human ego is extraordinarily fragile and being show our deficits is something truly uncomfortable to many. Even more so, people like to think of themselves as the hero of their own story. That despite any flaws, real or imagined, they are doing the best they can and are generally correct in their choices. Acknowledging flaws requires a measure of self-reflection in a very secure place, knowing that one can grow from it, rather than be shamed for it.

The other side is we don't like to believe that we are as problematic as our species history shows. "Othe people are bad, but not me." or "That could never happen to me."

I personally don't like fully idealized humans. I like humans with flaws and demonstrate great growth. It's why characters like Kirk, and Pike, and Burnham, and Sisko, and Spock, and Mariner, and even Tom Paris, all have a measure of appeal is that they all start with something they struggle with and seek to overcome it. That's a greater story is not that we are deficit but that we can grow past those deficits.

 

[Lord Garth]

No, don't get me wrong, I like, even love some incarnations of Trek, but my own circumstances are such that I've fallen behind on some of the new stuff
I haven't seen SNW at all, nor Disco since Season 2 finale due to the nature of how Trek is now shown. I don't have access to streaming services like Paramount+ eg. Lower Decks, Prodigy, Picard etc, are all a mystery to me, although I was never aTNG fan so I'm not fussed about old baldy. For me, its just a personal thing, too many to catch up on, some don't interest me.
I appreciate that others will be delighted that there is so much going on.

Prodigy is good, and I look forward to seeing every episode, but it's a kid's show.

Lower Decks? I stopped regularly watching early on in Season 2, binged the rest of the season at the end, and only saw one episode from Season 3. Never say never, but I'm probably not going to see the others.

Strange New Worlds is good -- and I think you'd like it -- but I like it more for the characters than the plots (which aren't bad, but I've seen them all before). The major drawback for me is that I feel like sometimes SNW seems too much like it's waiting around for TOS to happen. I could take it or leave it. But don't go by me. I think you'd like it more than I do.

I like Picard almost as much as Discovery. After DSC ends, I'd be fine with hanging up my spurs. It really depends on whatever they come up with next.