If you want it to work that way in your head then that's fine, but that's not the way it actually is.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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If you want it to work that way in your head then that's fine, but that's not the way it actually is.
Yeah, It's an opinion not reality. That's what I thought this thread was for.
In GEN Geordi looked better in O'Brien's DS9 uniform than Colm Meaney did. Even with the sleeves rolled up to accommodate for LeVar Burton's shorter arms.
The best Starfleet uniforms were those used between the 2280s and 2340s.
Leads to interesting questions though.
Suppose a long-standing Federation member (let's say the Tellarites or even Earth itself) goes in an undesirable direction (say, a revolution on the planet leading to a dictatorship of some kind). Could other Federations move in, undoing that, or would they have to respect the autonomy of that world, and if so, how quickly could the other Federation members boot them from the Federation in that case, and what would happen to Starfleet officers serving from that world? Would they get a choice as to where their allegiance would be? (after all there are also non-Federation species members serving in Starfleet, such as Nog.)
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It feels somewhat analgous to the issues with Russia right now - it is part of the UN but due to actions in Ukraine there are calls to expel it.
Would imagine the Federation having a similar approach.
Even countries like North Korea are part of the UN. It seems to me that the UFP, in ideological terms is therefore a far tighter organization than the UN, and that internal mutual checks and balances are also a lot stronger. Though I wouldn't expect the UFP to be as tight as, say, the USA.
Maybe a halfway house between the EU and USA - got some influence and cross state laws but still some autonomy too
and Klingons 
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Chakotay missed his calling in life by not running for President. "I believe strongly in everything I'm fighting for, until I'm sworn in! I'll make my Cabinet feel like they're part of the team! I'll be half-awake while anything important goes on! I'm surrounded by people who I don't know are secretly working for other governments! I'm perfect for this position!"
The diplomatic conference we saw in "Demons"/"Terra Prime" was for the founding of the Coalition of Planets in 2155, not the United Federation of Planets. The Coalition did presumably evolve into the Federation, but they're still legally distinct entities -- kind of similar to how the German Confederation of 1815 evolved into the German Empire of 1871 but they're still legally distinct entities.
TNG "The Outcast," ENT "Zero Hour," and ENT "These Are the Voyages..." established that the Federation was founded in 2161. "Zero Hour" established that the founding Federation member cultures were Humans, Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites.
The continuity of the novels published from 2000-2021 established that this meant the founding Member States were United Earth, the Confederacy of Vulcan, the Andorian Empire, the United Planets of Tellar, and the Alpha Centauri Concordium. Alpha Centauri was a Human colony that had achieved political independence from United Earth before the founding of the Federation, and so was included under the "Humans" line from "Zero Hour." (The ENT Rise of the Federation novel A Choice of Futures also established that the Confederated Martian Colonies became the first Member State to join the Federation after it was founded, six months later.)
However, the novels' depiction of Alpha Centauri as a fifth founding Member State is arguably no longer in continuity with the canon, since a number of episodes of DIS and PROD have depicted the emblems of Earth, Vulcan, Andor, and Tellar in the context of depicting Federation institutions or Federation history, without depicting a fifth emblem. So while nothing is explicit, one might take that to mean that the idea of there being a fifth founding Member State may no longer be consistent with the canon.
Except that the canon contradicts that notion. DS9 "Dr. Bashir, I Presume?" and SNW "Ghosts of Illyria" establish very explicitly that genetic augmentation is a violation of Federation law. So the canon has established that the Federation does, indeed, have the legal authority to regulate at least some things throughout its entire territory.
This is typical of federal unions in real life. It is extremely common for federal governments to have the authority to legislate on some issues while other issues are reserved for the member polities.
I mean, the Federation has all of the traits and authorities of a sovereign state rather than a mere alliance of sovereign states: It has discrete territory (TNG "The Best of Both Worlds, Part I") over which it possesses the legal authority to pass binding law (TNG "Force of Nature"), including laws governing life on the surface of its Member worlds (SNW "Ghosts of Illyria"); it has a Constitution that enumerates certain civil rights and liberties that must be protected for every person in Federation territory or aboard Federation spacecraft (TNG "The Perfect Mate," TNG "The Drumhead," VOY "Author, Author"); it has an elected legislature (DS9 "Rapture") and an elected executive (TVH, TUC, DS9 "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost"); it has a system of courts, including grand juries (DS9 "The Ascent") and a Supreme Court possessing the power of judicial review over Federation statutes (DS9 "Dr. Bashir, I Presume?"); the executive has the authority to conduct foreign policy without consulting with the governments of its member polities (TUC); it has an extensive state bureaucracy (TNG, DS9, et al); its legislature has the legal authority to declare war (TOS "Errand of Mercy"); it has a military (TWOK) that defends the Federation in times of war (DS9 Dominion War arc), which possesses a system of courts-martial that enforce binding military law over its members (TOS "Court-Martial," TNG "Ensign Ro," DS9 "Rules of Engagement"), and whose officers receive commissions after pledging to obey all lawful orders from the Federation government (DS9 "Tribunal," DS9 "For the Cause"), including the executive, who is the commander-in-chief of all Federation forces (DS9 "Paradise Lost").
So, given the preponderance of evidence, I would say that the Federation would not hesitate to enforce the legitimate laws of its Member States if someone attempted to overthrow the legitimately-elected government of that Member. The Federation would not just stand by and allow, say, the the Proud Bolians to violently overthrow the legitimately-elected government of Bolarus, for instance.
No way. The United Nations is not a sovereign state or government; it is an intergovernmental organization that provides a forum for sovereign states to conduct their foreign policy and resolve disputes diplomatically. It does not the combination of the traits outlined above -- no discrete territory over which it possesses the legal authority to pass binding law, no constitution that enumerates certain civil rights and liberties that must be protected for every person in its territory (the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and United Nations Charter are international treaties, not constitutions), no elected legislature, no elected executive, the executive officer it does have does not have the authority to conduct foreign policy without consulting the governments of its constituent polities, no system of regular courts (the courts it does have are special courts established by international treaties without jurisdiction over normal crimes), no grand juries or a Supreme Court possessing the power of judicial review over statutes, its bureaucracy is far less extensive than a normal state's and doesn't provide the routine services of normal state bureaucracies, no legal authority to declare war, no military, no system of courts-martial that enforce binding military law over its members, no officers who receive commissions after pledging to obey all lawful orders from a U.N. government, the Secretary-General is not commander-in-chief of all U.N. forces...
Exactly. Basically the Federation is a government; it is sovereign. The U.N. is not. The Federation Constitution and legal precedents probably reserve more authorities for the exclusive jurisdiction of Federation Members than the U.S. Constitution and its legal precedents do for U.S. states, but that's a function of scale and practicality more than lack of Federation sovereignty.
I think there were few posts here that said that somebody doesn't like some Star Trek series but it's followed by "but I haven't watched much of it" or perhaps only few episodes.
Well, before forming an opinion it might be usefull to watch more than few episodes, those few might have sucked even for the ultimate fans of that particular series.
Well, before forming an opinion it might be usefull to watch more than few episodes, those few might have sucked even for the ultimate fans of that particular series.
Here's one: For all the wrong reasons, I kind of wish TOS continued into the '70s. Right on, man! 
We were robbed of Phase 2...
Agreed. Much prefer that over TNG.
I want both. I want all the Trek. All of it.
If we get Phase II, we don't get TMP. I saw TMP in the theater in 2019 and that was truly a sight to see.
The way I'd have had it, TOS would run from 1966 to 1976. Two five-year missions. I guess you could call the second one Phase II. Then we get TMP.
Admiral Morrow's bullshit line in TSFS about the Enterprise being too old then gets ignored. I'd have it so Starfleet didn't want to repair the Enterprise because the damage it took in TWOK made it more trouble than it was worth. Really drive home that Khan did a number on them. To quote Spock, "They knew exactly where to hit us." That's how I would've handled it.
The way I'd have had it, TOS would run from 1966 to 1976. Two five-year missions. I guess you could call the second one Phase II. Then we get TMP.
Admiral Morrow's bullshit line in TSFS about the Enterprise being too old then gets ignored. I'd have it so Starfleet didn't want to repair the Enterprise because the damage it took in TWOK made it more trouble than it was worth. Really drive home that Khan did a number on them. To quote Spock, "They knew exactly where to hit us." That's how I would've handled it.
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I mean, sure, but if I have a choice then I wouldn't mind Phase 2, and more of that TOS era at the time with Kirk and Spock, instead of the TOS films. I think it would have shown more variety in the world.
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