"Such men dare take what they want..."--Khan: Sexy or creepy?
- Thread starter Neopeius
- Start date
I followed this math and agree with it. Everything after you determined a = 280 AU/yr^2 is just speculation about what if the augments modified the ship to go much much faster. The acceleration is probably lower than 280 AU/yr^2 because McGivers said it took years (plural).
If we use velocity = 560 AU/yr, which I agree with based on the math, then a 5 light-year trip would take over 500 years. Given all that can go wrong during that time, Spock's claim that the odds are on the order of 10,000 to 1 against them making it to another solar system.
The Enterprise came across their ship a few light years from earth. Thinking about these numbers makes me imagine Khan's people defeated and desperate. In a war-weary world correctly blaming them millions of deaths, they could not expect mercy. Their decision to steal a ship and head out in to the interstellar medium was one of extreme desperation and hubris. They could have come up with a plan to hide out somewhere and subsist. Instead they took a longshot chance of finding a new world they could take as their own.
Their ship's systems would probably fail over the centuries. Many of the life support chambers had failed by the time Kirk found them. But they really thought they were superheroes who could anything. That's why when Kirk revived Khan, it seemed reasonable to Khan that he might study up on the past 250 years and take over part of the galaxy. When Kirk was close to defeating him, Khan still thought he had a chance of getting Kirk to back down by threatening to blow up the ship.
Khan was so good, he didn't think he could lose, even when the odds were against him. He's a great villain for Kirk, who's also very capable and doesn't believe in the no-win scenario.
Weight = Drag. More energy to accelerate slower, and then more energy to decelerate slower.
They'd only carry the modules they plan on using.
Also, are we sure are that "most" of the sleep pods were in modules?
Khan was sleeping in the bridge. So either all 70 supermen where in the main hull. or the the command crew was in the main hull and 50 more supermen where in cargo modules.
Khan was cool when he was told how many of his superman had survived, so the ship had not been jettisoning modules filled with thousands of Superman.
The closest M class planet to Earth is Earth.
A thousand years to get somewhere that might be unlivable, or just head out for a 2 and a half centuries, and then come home, almost like Buck Rogers did.
I'd say no; the Botany Bay's flight was a wild desperation move, launched in extremis. But I'm excited to see what happens in 2018.
The DY-100 class has a "sleeper cab" option for miners going out to Mars, the asteroid belt, and the Kuiper belt. There's a lot of metal out there. The enormous Space Dock in Star Trek III suggests we've been tapping mineral wealth from the solar system. Space mining had to be a big, mature industry by the movie era, so it makes sense it was getting well underway in Khan's time.
It seems to me that "Zephram Cochrane of Alpha Centuri" must be like Lawrence of Arabia, Scott of the Antarctic, and Elaan of Troyius. It refers to the destination you're famous for.
I'd say no; the Botany Bay's flight was a wild desperation move, launched in extremis. But I'm excited to see what happens in 2018.
What's interesting is Nomad was launched in 2002 and almost certainly some kind of faster than light. Otherwise, how could it have met up with Tan Ru any appreciable distance from Earth.
Unless Warp drive was developed significantly after FTL. It's already established in the series that one doesn't need Warp to go FTL (Romulans/"Menagerie" shuttlecraft/probably "Doomsday Machine")
Warp Drive was just "going really fast." Scotty would panic at Warp 6 but the ship went to like Warp 15 without blowing up or turning people into iguanas. Regardless of what was stated in TMOST, on screen it was never more than "going faster than light" to varying degrees. And whether they used Impulse power or Warp Drive, the stars whizzed by the same way.
In The Corbomite Maneuver, Kirk is making the ship pull against the tractor beam with the warp drive. Today, going to warp would shove them into hyperspace or shoot them across the system. Back then, it was "revving the engines in reverse" like two pickup trucks playing tug o' war. When he says "now, impulse power, too!" I get a little confused because if that's flimsy little sub-light, what extra are they getting? And any ship that can hit the warp speed button and jump into hyperspace would be hard to hold onto by a tractor beam unless that beam nullified the engines.
In Elaan of Troyius, when Scotty cuts in the Warp Drive, they ship just turns a little faster. Danged thing should be out of range of the Klingons in seconds. "We'll pivot at Warp 2!" It sounds dramatic as hell but it's nonsense. They're making a left turn at 10 times the speed of light???
Honestly, trying to make sense out of speeds in the original series is a dead end. Khan's people got where they needed to be at the speed of plot.
In The Corbomite Maneuver, Kirk is making the ship pull against the tractor beam with the warp drive. Today, going to warp would shove them into hyperspace or shoot them across the system. Back then, it was "revving the engines in reverse" like two pickup trucks playing tug o' war. When he says "now, impulse power, too!" I get a little confused because if that's flimsy little sub-light, what extra are they getting? And any ship that can hit the warp speed button and jump into hyperspace would be hard to hold onto by a tractor beam unless that beam nullified the engines.
In Elaan of Troyius, when Scotty cuts in the Warp Drive, they ship just turns a little faster. Danged thing should be out of range of the Klingons in seconds. "We'll pivot at Warp 2!" It sounds dramatic as hell but it's nonsense. They're making a left turn at 10 times the speed of light???
Honestly, trying to make sense out of speeds in the original series is a dead end. Khan's people got where they needed to be at the speed of plot.
As for the modules on the Botany Bay - yes, it was designed to have two full rings of them as a max load. I think the intention may have been that they were fuel pods, and the BB had been in space so long that she had used up and ejected all but the last five. Either that, or they're cargo/sleeper unit pods, and Khan only needed five for his people. There are models and schematics out there. You can clearly see the attachment points for more pods. Here's my 1/350 kit by REL:
Cygnus X-1 has a set of plans. If you scroll down you can see the full load in the 2nd to last sheet:
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/ss-botany-bay.php
Cygnus X-1 has a set of plans. If you scroll down you can see the full load in the 2nd to last sheet:
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/ss-botany-bay.php
As for the modules on the Botany Bay - yes, it was designed to have two full rings of them as a max load. I think the intention may have been that they were fuel pods, and the BB had been in space so long that she had used up and ejected all but the last five. Either that, or they're cargo/sleeper unit pods, and Khan only needed five for his people. There are models and schematics out there. You can clearly see the attachment points for more pods. Here's my 1/350 kit by REL:
Cygnus X-1 has a set of plans. If you scroll down you can see the full load in the 2nd to last sheet:
https://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/ss-botany-bay.php
Beautiful stuff. Here's the schematic we made for our spinoff of SFB.
Oh.
What if they cracked cold fusion?
Weird.
Impulse was invented a hundred years after Warp in 2169 (according to a non canon rpg).
Geordie in Relics.
2369 - 200 = 2169.
Wow.
That's just wierd.
What if they cracked cold fusion?
Weird.
Impulse was invented a hundred years after Warp in 2169 (according to a non canon rpg).
Geordie in Relics.
2369 - 200 = 2169.
Wow.
That's just wierd.
I think Scotty was concerned about strain on the engines when they were going Warp 8 for a prolonged period. When the ship goes Warp 12 in That Which Survives, it's due to sabotage, which may have allowed the engines to go faster and may have made stress on the hull the weak link. Or it maybe have just put them in danger of damaging the engines.
There's no Threshold salamander issue because the warp scale was reworked between TOS and TNG because ships went faster and people wanted to use numbers ranging from 1 to 10.
I think the reason for this is the writers know that the speed of light is incredibly fast and is the ultimate speed limit according to real science. So you'd think that means going a quarter the speed of light, you could get places. But space is too fast. Starts are many light years apart.
There are times when they get this right. They said in Where No Man Has Gone Before that they would be stranded without warp drive. In The Paradise Syndrome without warp drive they couldn't go much faster than the asteroid and it took months to go what had been a short distance.
I think the warp drive bends space time similar to how mass does.
If you engage the engines while held in place, they exert a force similar to gravity. My thought is the impulse engines produce much less force. In physics, impulse = force * time, and I think the idea is you have to run the impulse engines over a period of time to pick up speed. But in this scene, Kirk just wanted every bit of force he could get.
I know this doesn't make sense because space-time is not some fixed fabric of the universe. One of Einstein's postulates of Special Relativity was that there is no fixed post in the universe against which all objects' velocities can be compared. No matter how you slice it, you have to suspend disbelief for FTL drive because our current understanding is it's impossible.
I thought the idea was the warp reactor produced plasma that services two functions:
- It creates a warp field when pushed through coils in the nacelles.
- It generates a lot of power that can be used for shields, weapons, and other ship's systems.
So in Elaan of Troyius, when Scotty gets the warp reactor working, Kirk gets more power and speed. "Pivot at Warp 2" makes no sense, but I take it to mean they'll do some maneuvers at warp speed, not literally pivoting.
For me the vastness of space compared to the speed of light gives me the idea of just how far Khan's ship was from any star system: hundreds of years away, a trip no normal person would want to take, but they were supermen.
I always suspected the 1990s in TOS were more advanced than the 1990's we actually slogged through, propulsion-wise.
Unlike Heaven's Gate, this cult had a glimmer of hope of waking up.
