In what ways is the Federation Fascist?

[JirinPanthosa]

For the UN to be fascist they would have to have enforcement power.

Instead of quibbling about representation size, a better approach would be to keep interplanetary politics focused on interplanetary matters and let member planets have internal sovereignty for internal matters, within some basic limitations to ensure basic rights are maintained.

I think it’s a shaky matter to coerce doctors to perform a procedure they consider immoral, so long as there are other doctors available willing to perform it instead.

 

[1001001]

I think it’s a shaky matter to coerce doctors to perform a procedure they consider immoral, so long as there are other doctors available willing to perform it instead.

Not sure if this is in response to what I said, so apologies if it’s not.

If they consider a perfectly normal and legal procedure of that discipline “immoral”, then they should not have gone into that branch of medicine.

There’s no “coercion” involved, unless someone forced them to go into healthcare at gun point.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Not sure if this is in response to what I said, so apologies if it’s not.

If they consider a perfectly normal and legal procedure of that discipline “immoral”, then they should not have gone into that branch of medicine.

There’s no “coercion” involved, unless someone forced them to go into healthcare at gun point.

You can’t both care about healing the sick and have strictly religious moral views?

As long as that doctor is not preventing the patient from getting the procedure from someone else, whose rights are violated? Doctors have a right to choose which services they do and do not offer as part of their practice regardless of whether you or I agree with their motivations.

 

[Oddish]

I was using abortion as a modern day example of physicians choosing not to perform specific procedures on ethical grounds, not trying to start a discussion about abortion itself. A subject that touchy should be confined to its own topic.

Regarding the relevant subject, a doctor might view themself as a healer, a person who saves life. And, if the Federation Medical still uses the Hippocratic Oath, they might consider ending life to be violating it. My theory about Federation medical ethics is that each doctor is, to an extent, allowed to practice medicine within the parameters of their culture, and their conscience.

 

[1001001]

I was using abortion as a modern day example of physicians choosing not to perform specific procedures on ethical grounds, not trying to start a discussion about abortion itself. A subject that touchy should be confined to its own topic.

You’re right. I’ll drop it.

 

[The Wormhole]

Dr. McCoy's assistance of his father's death is shown with painful regret.

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't look at that as an example of anything. As already mentioned earlier, McCoy's regret stemmed mostly from the fact that a cure to his father's condition was found not long after he died. But even putting that aside, even in a society which does allow medically assisted suicide, I should think a doctor performing the procedure on one of their own parents is going to be filled with pain and regret while doing so. There are all kinds of reasons why they would feel that way which have nothing to do with whether medically assisted suicide is allowed or not.

 

[Kor]

... if the Federation Medical still uses the Hippocratic Oath, ...

Despite the perception in pop culture, even today the Hippocratic Oath is not universal in medical practice. The original version certainly has a lot of stuff that's irrelevant to modern medicine. The concept of not doing harm to patients gets a brief mention toward the middle, and was possibly a later insertion. Today there are a variety of professional oaths administered by medical schools. Some use a modernized variation of the Hippocratic Oath, some use the 1948 Declaration of Geneva, and some use an oath that the school came up with themselves. And many use an oath that was formulated by the graduating students. Among all these oaths, there is notable variation in how medical responsibilities are considered, as well as what may be specifically mentioned as unethical or not. And then medical associations have volumes of ethical codes that are frequently updated. And further, the legal side of the whole thing is another ballgame, as law and ethics are different fields and don't always line up with one another.

As for McCoy's father, I've pointed out before that removing artificial life support (as McCoy did) is considered differently than actually administering something lethal. Oftentimes a jurisdiction will have legal allowances for the former, but not the latter.

Kor

 

[Oddish]

Despite the perception in pop culture, even today the Hippocratic Oath is not universal in medical practice.

I believe you. However, two tenets of it are an essential aspect of modern medicine: doing no harm, and patient confidentiality. For those interested, here is a translation of it: https://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/greek/greek_oath.html

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I was using abortion as a modern day example of physicians choosing not to perform specific procedures on ethical grounds, not trying to start a discussion about abortion itself.

You can't have that both ways. It's not having a discussion in good faith to bring up a topic while also demanding that it be insulated against feedback.

A subject that touchy should be confined to its own topic.

Yet you brought it up. That's an argument for not having brought it up in the first place.

 

[Ragitsu]

He makes a fair point, Sir Oddish.

 

[Oddish]

Yet you brought it up. That's an argument for not having brought it up in the first place.

Just because I say that I feel like a rat in a maze, it doesn't mean I'm trying to start a discussion on the ethics of animal experimentation. I might just be saying I feel lost and confused.

Be that as it may, it was a hot button issue, one that lots of people are passionate about. So, I will concede your point, and @Ragitsu 's as well, and admit that I chose my example poorly. And, suggest that we follow our moderator's example and drop it.

 

[fireproof78]

Just because I say that I feel like a rat in a maze, it doesn't mean I'm trying to start a discussion on the ethics of animal experimentation. I might just be saying I feel lost and confused.

Despite all your rage you're still just a rat in a maze.

 

[Farscape One]

Quoting a certain song while quoting someone using pumpkin in their name?

Smashing!

 

[1001001]

Quoting a certain song while quoting someone using pumpkin in their name?

Smashing!

On a scale of 1-10, I would give that a Zero.

 

[Whizkid]

The Federation IS potentially Fascist. Potentially so.

I congratulate voodoowoman2 for having raised one of the most important questions which should concern any Trekkie. It could not have been easy, therefore her ad hominem caveat.

Evidence?: DIS S1:Ep 1. That whole new Klingon bs about "we come in peace."

 

[Whizkid]

Just because I say that I feel like a rat in a maze, it doesn't mean I'm trying to start a discussion on the ethics of animal experimentation. I might just be saying I feel lost and confused.

Be that as it may, it was a hot button issue, one that lots of people are passionate about. So, I will concede your point, and @Ragitsu 's as well, and admit that I chose my example poorly. And, suggest that we follow our moderator's example and drop it.

There are very few people who confess to being "lost and confused." Led Zepp nothwithstanding.

It is the beginning of science.

Thank you.

 

[Ragitsu]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Oddish]

Not just Data...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Whizkid]

Not just Data...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

But I still like Pic/Data better.

 

[Whizkid]

But I still like Pic/Data better.

Wisdom: (Q'Card)

Q, is there any point to all this?

Yet, the anomaly exists here too!

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies