What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Lord Garth]

I'm dead sure that if ENT went three more seasons, the Romulan War would've happened. They had the Romulans secretly controlling the Vulcan government, they felt threatened by the beginning of an alliance between Earth, Andor, and Taler... there's no way it wouldn't have happened.

It would've been action-heavy, for sure, but I don't think it would've been dark. The Romulan War is the thing that the Federation was supposedly born out of. Tonally, it probably would've felt more like the Klingon War in DS9 Seasons 4-5, not the Dominion War of DS9 Seasons 6-7.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Ok, I have two.

John Williams (Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Superman, etc…) NEEDS to do a Star Trek score before he retires/passes.

I think Enterprise is a good show that needed 3 more seasons. But I’m glad it got canceled before they got to the Romulan War. After the Xindi Arc, the last thing they needed was another dark long term arc.

I genuinely thought Williams was already retired. Apparently, on looking it up, he announced his retirement from *star wars* some years ago and I must have gotten that announcement twisted around in my memory. Although he has more recently announced Indiana Jones 5 will be his last film score because he wants to focus on concert music for the remainder of his career.

But, hey, it seems he still did the score for Obi-Wan even after he was 'retired from Star Wars', so you might still have a shot.

 

[F. King Daniel]

And "Moira" is still 100% irrelevant and non-canon

Non-canon, yes. But irrelevant in an era when streaming Trek is borrowing plenty of ideas, plots and tidbits from novels? Not at all.

 

[Toril Toran]

Ok, I have two.

John Williams (Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Superman, etc…) NEEDS to do a Star Trek score before he retires/passes.

I think Enterprise is a good show that needed 3 more seasons. But I’m glad it got canceled before they got to the Romulan War. After the Xindi Arc, the last thing they needed was another dark long term arc.

I think that is a fantastic idea.
Maybe a future movie?

 

[F. King Daniel]

I think that is a fantastic idea.
Maybe a future movie?

It was nearly a movie in 2006. Script is in this thread, it wasn't great. Fascinating, though. It was called Star Trek: The Beginning and starred Kirk's great grandfather.

 

[Orphalesion]

Non-canon, yes. But irrelevant in an era when streaming Trek is borrowing plenty of ideas, plots and tidbits from novels? Not at all.

Anything from the novels is irrelevant unless it's mentioned in the shows. So if Moira is ever mentioned on the shows, then she can be relevant, until then...no.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Anything from the novels is irrelevant unless it's mentioned in the shows. So if Moira is ever mentioned on the shows, then she can be relevant, until then...no.

Only if you obsess about in-universe continuity. Look at things like author inspiration and it all matters.

 

[Paul755]

Well, you just said two virtually opposite things in that one post. So at least one of the two is guaranteed to be controversial.

I'm dead sure that if ENT went three more seasons, the Romulan War would've happened. They had the Romulans secretly controlling the Vulcan government, they felt threatened by the beginning of an alliance between Earth, Andor, and Taler... there's no way it wouldn't have happened.

It would've been action-heavy, for sure, but I don't think it would've been dark. The Romulan War is the thing that the Federation was supposedly born out of. Tonally, it probably would've felt more like the Klingon War in DS9 Seasons 4-5, not the Dominion War of DS9 Seasons 6-7.

yeah, I guess I did word that confusingly.

what I’m trying to say is, it should have gone for 3 more seasons but I’d rather it get canceled than have 1 or 2 of those seasons devoted to another war.

 

[fireproof78]

Anything from the novels is irrelevant unless it's mentioned in the shows. So if Moira is ever mentioned on the shows, then she can be relevant, until then...no.

Indeed. And even if it gets put in live action it won't look like the novels.

 

[Sci]

I genuinely thought Williams was already retired. Apparently, on looking it up, he announced his retirement from *star wars* some years ago and I must have gotten that announcement twisted around in my memory. Although he has more recently announced Indiana Jones 5 will be his last film score because he wants to focus on concert music for the remainder of his career.

But, hey, it seems he still did the score for Obi-Wan even after he was 'retired from Star Wars', so you might still have a shot.

He didn't do the full score, but he did compose character-specific leitmotifs that the full scores' composers were able to use in both Solo: A Star Wars Story and Star Wars: Obi-Wan Kenobi.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'll have to un-drop Lower Decks. My brother won't leave me alone about it. It's kind of driving me nuts.

Him: "It's a true continuation of TNG!"
Me (thinking in my head): "The reason I like PIC so much is because of how much it's not like TNG! This is the way I wish the 24th Century had always been depicted!"

 

[Farscape One]

Do yourself the favor and watch LOWER DECKS. Before SNW, it was by far my favorite of the current shows. (I know your tastes are a little different and I'm not saying you are me, but I figure I would give my endorsement anyway.)

Not only are the references fantastic, but the characters grow, there's real heart in the episodes, and the stories have been great.

My only complaint is that the episodes are not longer, but I know that's an animated thing now... despite it being on a streaming service that has none of the time limitations that broadcast tv has.

 

[Lord Garth]

Do yourself the favor and watch LOWER DECKS. Before SNW, it was by far my favorite of the current shows. (I know your tastes are a little different and I'm not saying you are me, but I figure I would give my endorsement anyway.)

Not only are the references fantastic, but the characters grow, there's real heart in the episodes, and the stories have been great.

My only complaint is that the episodes are not longer, but I know that's an animated thing now... despite it being on a streaming service that has none of the time limitations that broadcast tv has.

I'm not saying I don't like it or that I think it's bad. Just I'd see one, and I'd be like, "Not bad. I had a light chuckle at something. And it killed some time!" If something doesn't hook me, I drift away from it. (Which, again, is why hate-watching is such a foreign concept to me.)

Then I saw the Bajoran Security Officer eating Magatu Poop in one episode, and I was like, "Okay! This is disgusting!" And turned it off. I binged the rest of the second season at the end, in one go. I was thinking to do the same with the third. But now my brother's like, "Have you seen it?" "Have you seen it?" "You have to see it!" So, yeah. I'll find some time soonish and watch the third season. The only one I've seen so far is the episode where they visit DS9.

 

[fireproof78]

Him: "It's a true continuation of TNG!"
Me (thinking in my head): "The reason I like PIC so much is because of how much it's not like TNG! This is the way I wish the 24th Century had always been depicted!"

Indeed. LD is fun and all but it does very little to keep me coming back. I like Mariner and that's about it. Boimler is too close for comfort in reminding me of people in my personal life and the references feel like I'm playing Star Trek trivia with my brother.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I'll have to un-drop Lower Decks. My brother won't leave me alone about it. It's kind of driving me nuts.

I wasn't sold until the back half of Season 1 and so far Season 3 hasn't touched the quality of Season 2 for me.

It isn't a 'true continuation' of TNG though. I'd say it's very much it's own thing. A kind of Semi-Futurama (but not nearly as funny) in a TNG skin.

Controversial Opinion: I think Picard Season 1 is the single best season in all of Star Trek.

I love a bold statement, even if I don't agree with it. Your justification?

 

[Lord Garth]

I wasn't sold until the back half of Season 1 and so far Season 3 hasn't touched the quality of Season 2 for me.

It isn't a 'true continuation' of TNG though. I'd say it's very much it's own thing. A kind of Semi-Futurama (but not nearly as funny) in a TNG skin.



I love a bold statement, even if I don't agree with it. Your justification?

1. It ponders life, death, how people cope with the loss of loved ones like Riker and Troi's son, as well as Data, and how Picard faces life after being prepared to die.

2. It shows damaged people. Picard is damaged, Seven is damaged, Raffi is damaged. And the show doesn't act like that can be resolved in an episode or a season.

3. It shows that some wounds truly are too deep to heal. Raffi's son won't forgive her for focusing on her work and uncovering that it was the Romulans who we're behind the attack on Mars and not AI. Even after she proves it, I doubt he gives a shit. It's true to life that these types of family issues aren't resolved.

4. When Seven wants revenge for the death of Icheb, the show is smart enough to know that a simple pep talk from Picard isn't going to be enough to talk Seven down. Seven pretends to be swayed, then does her own thing, and we can come to our own conclusions.

5. The news is always trying to spin a narrative. FNN is no different from FOX News, CNN, or MSNBC, and Picard calls them out on it. Even the name FNN is like a combination of FOX News and CNN. "The right wing and the left wing are two wings of the same bird," they say. I have my own thoughts about that too, especially nowadays, but I won't get into that here. Anyway...

6. We finally get to see more of Romulan culture and more diversity in Romulan culture. This was long overdue.

7. The show is always willing to show two points of view. Picard wants to rescue Soji, comes up with a plan, and plans to use Starfleet to help him. Then Clancy points out everything Picard's done to erode any goodwill between them, leaving Picard to figure out how to rescue Soji without them. It's handled better than when Kirk decides to go off on his own in TSFS, and is one way of showing that Starfleet isn't the only answer.

8. The Fenris Rangers are another example of Starfleet not being the only answer, especially when the Federation turns a blind eye to those outside their jurisdiction.

9. Dahj and Soji's worlds are turned completely upside down when they find out they're not who they thought they were. One seeks Picard for help, the other initially rejects his help and takes convincing. One dies, the other lives.

10. Because this is a sequel series, it can explore a level of character development that can't be shared anywhere else, except for the later seasons of DS9. Picard and Seven talk about how they never fully recovered their Humanity after being assimilated. We already know both their backgrounds, they already know each other's backgrounds, so they can just go right into it without any setup. It's already there.

11. We get to see Seven of Nine in a different context. What happens after she gets "home"? Does she "assimilate" into Humanity, does she do what she's "supposed to do"? No. She finds her own way. All the characters have to find their own way.

12. The opening scene is a masterpiece of Prestige TV filmmaking. I went over it here a few years ago: The Multiple Layers of PIC's Opening Scenes | The Trek BBS

Picard had the task of picking up where TNG and the Prime Timeline Movies left off. While doing so, it took a lot of cues, and when you're looking at it, you realize how many layers there were in putting it together.

1. We see the Enterprise-D. They rope you in. "Hey! Remember TNG?"

2. While we see the Enterprise-D, we hear the song Blue Skies. Which picks up where Nemesis left off. The song Data sung toward the beginning of the movie and B-4 tried to sing at the end that Picard helped him with. Now we get the Bing Crosby version.

3. Inside Ten-Forward, Picard's dressed in civilian clothing and how he is "now". But Data's in a First Contact uniform. While they're on an Enterprise-D set. Picard from PIC, Data from the Movies, and a set from the TV series. All three periods of TNG are represented. All three are fair game in this series.

4. Picard and Data are playing cards. The first episode of Picard picks up where the last episode left off, with a card game. Picard says, "I don't want the game to end."

5. Then Picard sees the attack on Mars. In full view. That's the last we see of him on the Enterprise in this series. He wakes up immediately afterwards. Later on, we find out that Picard left the Enterprise to help with the Romulan Crisis. And the destruction of Romulus was the last thing we heard about of the 24th Century prior the beginning of this series. Picard wanted to help, but he was stopped. On multiple fronts as is later revealed. The Federation Council on one front and the Zhat Vash on another.

6. When he wakes up, he gets out of bed, and he's in the Vineyard as it's reintroduced. We're in a new era. When Picard wakes up from a double day-dream at the beginning of First Contact, he's on the Enterprise-E, as the ship is introduced. We were in a new era. Perfect parallel.

7. Going passed the first scene. In First Contact, the Admiral orders Picard to patrol the Neutral Zone in case the Romulans decide to take advantage of the Borg attacking the Federation. In Picard, he lives with Romulans at the Vineyard. And no one's ordering him to do anything.

8. The future in "All Good Things" showed Picard living at the Vineyard. PIC is following through with where "All Good Things" said he'd end up.

There's more, but I'll stop here for now.

 

[plynch]

There are enough damaged people wallowing or exulting in their damage in real life. I don’t want to watch that. I mean no insult to people who are damaged. But man, focusing on that has become the THING in our culture. I personally don’t like that turn.

LIke TOS was offered as an antidote to intra-human hatred. We’ll get through this. Humanity will a. still exist and b. allow a Russian man and African woman will serve together without batting an eye.

The long PIC Mommy issues arc was cringey, predictable after a couple eps, and wholly unnecessary. “Let’s deconstruct Picard.” “Yeah, kewl.”

For me S2 was just sniveling shite that crapped all over Picard the character.

Y.M.M.V.

 

[Farscape One]

1. It ponders life, death, how people cope with the loss of loved ones like Riker and Troi's son, as well as Data, and how Picard faces life after being prepared to die.

2. It shows damaged people. Picard is damaged, Seven is damaged, Raffi is damaged. And the show doesn't act like that can be resolved in an episode or a season.

3. It shows that some wounds truly are too deep to heal. Raffi's son won't forgive her for focusing on her work and uncovering that it was the Romulans who we're behind the attack on Mars and not AI. Even after she proves it, I doubt he gives a shit. It's true to life that these types of family issues aren't resolved.

4. When Seven wants revenge for the death of Icheb, the show is smart enough to know that a simple pep talk from Picard isn't going to be enough to talk Seven down. Seven pretends to be swayed, then does her own thing, and we can come to our own conclusions.

5. The news is always trying to spin a narrative. FNN is no different from FOX News, CNN, or MSNBC, and Picard calls them out on it. Even the name FNN is like a combination of FOX News and CNN. "The right wing and the left wing are two wings of the same bird," they say. I have my own thoughts about that too, especially nowadays, but I won't get into that here. Anyway...

6. We finally get to see more of Romulan culture and more diversity in Romulan culture. This was long overdue.

7. The show is always willing to show two points of view. Picard wants to rescue Soji, comes up with a plan, and plans to use Starfleet to help him. Then Clancy points out everything Picard's done to erode any goodwill between them, leaving Picard to figure out how to rescue Soji without them. It's handled better than when Kirk decides to go off on his own in TSFS, and is one way of showing that Starfleet isn't the only answer.

8. The Fenris Rangers are another example of Starfleet not being the only answer, especially when the Federation turns a blind eye to those outside their jurisdiction.

9. Dahj and Soji's worlds are turned completely upside down when they find out they're not who they thought they were. One seeks Picard for help, the other initially rejects his help and takes convincing. One dies, the other lives.

10. Because this is a sequel series, it can explore a level of character development that can't be shared anywhere else, except for the later seasons of DS9. Picard and Seven talk about how they never fully recovered their Humanity after being assimilated. We already know both their backgrounds, they already know each other's backgrounds, so they can just go right into it without any setup. It's already there.

11. We get to see Seven of Nine in a different context. What happens after she gets "home"? Does she "assimilate" into Humanity, does she do what she's "supposed to do"? No. She finds her own way. All the characters have to find their own way.

12. The opening scene is a masterpiece of Prestige TV filmmaking. I went in all of that here a few years ago: The Multiple Layers of PIC's Opening Scenes | The Trek BBS



There's more, but I'll stop here for now.

While I don't agree with you that PICARD season 1 is the best in the franchise, you certainly make very convincing points on why you think it is. Excellent reasoning. Bravo.

 

[Farscape One]

There are enough damaged people wallowing or exulting in their damage in real life. I don’t want to watch that. I mean no insult to people who are damaged. But man, focusing on that has become the THING in our culture. I personally don’t like that turn.

LIke TOS was offered as an antidote to intra-human hatred. We’ll get through this. Humanity will a. still exist and b. allow a Russian man and African woman will serve together without batting an eye.

The long PIC Mommy issues arc was cringey, predictable after a couple eps, and wholly unnecessary. “Let’s deconstruct Picard.” “Yeah, kewl.”

For me S2 was just sniveling shite that crapped all over Picard the character.

Y.M.M.V.

Precisely why I don't like season 2.

Captain Picard is a very moral, heroic figure. With TNG, we see that hero be a hero simply because it feels correct and the right thing to do, not because of childhood trauma or angst. PIC season 2 decontructed him in a negative way, I feel. And while it does shed light on why he has always been so staunchly pro-Prime Directive, it hurts Picard's character overall because now he's just another protagonist who becomes that way simply from childhood trauma. (Maybe my view is more personal because I grew up on TNG.)

It's why Captain Pike in SNW ranks so highly in my leads in the franchise now. He does heroic things and is moral simply because he believes in being moral and doing the right thing for its own sake, not because of previous trauma.

I miss seeing heroes do those things for no other reason than it being just the right thing to do. Our world needs more of that.

 

[Oddish]

PIC isn't my favorite Trek series; it was more "watch once, say 'that was interesting', and move on". But @Lord Garth made some very valid points nonetheless.