Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

[Orphalesion]

I think the fighting choreography was *very* good. You really get a sense of the battle prowess the Numenorians and the Elves have.I particularly liked Galadriel's horse tricks.

It's also interesting that Galadriel and "Atar" bring up a topic Tolkien did struggle with; the souls of Orcs and whether they could be saved or not. And while I, personally, will never like the Silmarillion version of the origin of the Orc, I think they cast it in a very interesting light. Would be interesting if, aside form Atar, we get more of an insight into Orc life and culture.
It also touches upon that Sauron, at least for a time, wanted to do "right" in his own, twisted version of the idea.

Also interesting that our Southlanders live in Gorgoroth, the volcanic plateau part of Mordor that's all ash and death in the Lord of the Rings. I had honestly believed that we were in Nurn, the fertile part where Sauron's thralls farmed to feed his armies.

Also...looks like Halbrand is a good guy after all. Wonder what his fate will be. I'm still wondering whether they're going to make a link between his people and either the future Rohirrim, or maybe the people of Lake Town/Esgaroth form the Hobbit?
Though the very last shots were a bit..eh..how exactlya re they going to escape what looked like one of those superheated ash clouds that destroyed Pompeii?

Ahh! Yes, of course I know the story of Adam & Eve etc...
Yes, I'm in favor of the Original Sin version of the silmarilion being relegated to an unfinished tales legendarium.
Having read the Silmarillion many times I couldn't figure out where you were going with the Original Sin stuff until now. I do recall him writing that he wanted the allusions to Catholicism to be more subtle.

I don't believe the Fall of Man is included in the Silmarilion.

It is not included, but even in the Silmarillion (at least the way I remember it)there are hints at a "darkness" the Edain are fleeing in their past. I think it's in the part where Finrod meets the first humans? I always wondered what exactly they meant and was very happy to finally get an explanation in Morgoth's Ring. Though it might have been in the Narn I Hin Huring instead?
But yes, as it stands with the material in HoME material people are free to decide what they want to accept as canon. I personally do it with the Fall of Mankind story, and with the idea that Orcs are corrupted humans (and assorted other stuff), I'm even one of the few people who prefers the "Round World" version of the mythology and I have heaps of head canon on how it could be worked into the Silmarillion with which I won't bore you.
But I can definitely understand when somebody just goes with the published Silmarillion, I think most people do, and that's perfectly alright.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

"The Alfirin seeds."
"It is a tradition among Elves, before the battle begins, plant one."
"New life, in defiance of death."

Holy fuck, even before the twisting of the knife (so to speak) at the end, this was hands down the best episode of the season for me so far. From the quiet moments such as the above exchange and Isildur and Elendil reconciling post-battle to the roller coaster battle in the Southlands. I especially loved Arondir to Bronwyn's Home Alone-esque strategy against Adar's orcs, even if it I knew it was too easy (such as how Arondir's plan relied on such a small group of orcs would come to the village in order to work).

Of course Adar turned the tables by having the Southlanders unknowingly fight each other ("Thought we'd take them in for nothing? Had to pay the toll"), but to do it a second time with the bait switch was particularly nasty...and finally demonstrated why Adar wanted those trenches dug out. I love it when it a plan comes together...but not like this! Even for a predestined Mordor!

Halbrand finally accepted his Aragorn destiny right before all hell breaks loose. Between that and his presumably understandable rage against Adar, I think it's pretty safe to say he's not Sauron. The only way that would work is a very long and unbelievable con and for what? To fool the viewers? No, I think it's definitely safe to cross him off the list. I still maintain we haven't seen Sauron at all yet but it's good to see at least one person off the list for certain.

Galadriel's rage and nearly going to far with Adar makes me feel like Galadriel was about to start walking down her path towards peace and grace as we see in the Third Age. Well, until she stood defiantly face to face with the wall of ash.

After all of the ups and downs battling for their village and land beyond, it feels like a waste to have most of the Southlanders now wiped out by the volcano. But perhaps that's the point. I imagine at least Bronwyn, Arondir, and Theo will survive, but everyone else are essentially Red Shirts now, unfortunately. Of course, the only ones guaranteed to survive are Galadriel, Isildur, and Elendil. All bets are off for everyone else, even Míriel.

 

[thribs]

Rather careless of them to have that water go straight into a magma pit.
Halbrand could be a nice guy but he could also be trying to corrupt Galadriel into his cause. That “remember me” line to Adar could have a double meaning.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Rather careless of them to have that water go straight into a magma pit.

Careless of whom? That was deliberate.

 

[thribs]

Careless of whom? That was deliberate.

That was the joke.

 

[Orphalesion]

"The Alfirin seeds."
"It is a tradition among Elves, before the battle begins, plant one."
"New life, in defiance of death."

This....made me look up Alfirin, and I had forgotten it...but that's the flower blooming on the graves of the Kings of Rohan
Perhaps a hint that Halbrand's people *are* going to move north and become the Rohirrim, with this perhaps the origin of the custom?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

That was the joke.

You forgot the punchline.

This....made me look up Alfirin, and I had forgotten it...but that's the flower blooming on the graves of the Kings of Rohan
Perhaps a hint that Halbrand's people *are* going to move north and become the Rohirrim, with this perhaps the origin of the custom?

Yeah, I looked it up, too, after I transcribed the quote. I wasn't sure of the source of the name.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

How did Halbrand learn to ride a horse so rapidly when there were seemingly no horses in Middle-earth in the Second Age before the Númenóreans brought them? Also how did he cut off Adar's escape? I guess being from the area he might know a short cut, but it seemed contrived.

It seems that Adar is neither Eöl nor his son Maeglin, but just some random Elf who was corrupted by Morgoth. Not that it really matters as Amazon can't tell their stories. He stated that he killed Sauron but that's obviously false. He does seem to suspect something is odd about Halbrand but he doesn't recognise him as Sauron.

Orodruin being set off reminded me of the denouement in Wreck It Ralph. Water causing a titanic eruption as it flashes to steam is quite believable - despite what some YouTube critics think - remember Krakatoa and Mount St Helens, which were examples of phreatomagmatic eruptions.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

How did Halbrand learn to ride a horse so rapidly when there were seemingly no horses in Middle-earth in the Second Age before the Númenóreans brought them? Also how did he cut off Adar's escape? I guess being from the area he might know a short cut, but it seemed contrived.

Do we actually know there are no horses in Middle-earth during the Second Age or is that just an assumption people have been making simply because we hadn't seen any yet? Because the absence of something isn't the proof unto itself.

Orodruin being set off reminded me of the denouement in Wreck It Ralph. Water causing a titanic eruption as it flashes to steam is quite believable - despite what some YouTube critics think - remember Krakatoa and Mount St Helens, which were examples of phreatomagmatic eruptions.

How dare you drag science and history into this?!

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Do we actually know there are no horses in Middle-earth during the Second Age or is that just an assumption people have been making simply because we hadn't seen any yet? Because the absence of something isn't the proof unto itself.

Galadriel implies this when she goes to Númenór and rides with Elendil. We haven't seen horses in Middle-earth or anyone riding them until her task force shows up. Everybody seems to be walking everywhere - no sign of Thranduil riding an elk, but humans carrying elk antlers. It must take them weeks to get around and I doubt there are any hostels along the way. But, yes, it's just my supposition about the lack of horses and I could be wrong.

How dare you drag science and history into this?!

I was amused by the outrage at how Orodruin was engineered into ruining the land in the show. I expect they thought magic should have been used. I thought the eruption was tight. We know Galadriel survives so her survival was super easy, barely an inconvenience.

ETA: Regarding Thranduil, his facial scars came and went. An Elf's soul (fëar) influences their body (hröa), especially when under stress and this can manifest itself in their physical appearance, reflecting their state of mind. I wonder if this is the case with Adar.

 

[Orphalesion]

It seems that Adar is neither Eöl nor his son Maeglin, but just some random Elf who was corrupted by Morgoth.

Sorry, but it was never going to be Eol or Maeglin. Not only is the idea of their survival pretty "badfic", but the Orcs wouldn't have any reason to call either of them "father" I know the black armour looked a bit like Eol's is described, but that alone never made it so.

Galadriel implies this when she goes to Númenór and rides with Elendil.

To me she just seemed happy that they'd ride to a place because she likes horses and it was a break from sitting around.
But you are right that we haven't seen horses in ME, it would be pretty stupid, though.

Regarding Thranduil, his facial scars came and went. An Elf's soul (fëar) influences their body (hröa), especially when under stress and this can manifest itself in their physical appearance, reflecting their state of mind. I wonder if this is the case with Adar.

That stuff with the scars is only cannon to the movies though. Not saying that there isn't a special relation between an Elf's fea and hroa but in canon tales this usually manifests as a (reversible) semblance of "age and greyness" rather than showing or hiding scars.

 

[TheForge]

It seems Adar's referendum and annexation of the Southlands was a success.

Seriously though, I found the show more for kids until this recent ep.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Sorry, but it was never going to be Eol or Maeglin. Not only is the idea of their survival pretty "badfic", but the Orcs wouldn't have any reason to call either of them "father" I know the black armour looked a bit like Eol's is described, but that alone never made it so.

I'm not disappointed at all. I would have been surprised if Adar were either of those two Elves, but Amazon are not going to pay additional millions to the rights to use those names just to perform fan service. If they wanted to do that, they wouldn't have trampled all over the lore nearly as much as they have done.

I also agree about your fëar and hröa point. Again, it's something that few are going to notice or speculate about.

I enjoyed Adar roasting Galadriel. I think she's starting to realise what she has become.

 

[FPAlpha]

Just saw the episode and i actually bolted up from the bed going "Did they just create Mt. Doom and Mordor????"

It was a really good episode with some very good action, high stakes and twists - something House of Dragon might take a cue from. Now that we are nearing the end of the season i expect even more awesome reveals and events that will shape the rest of the second age.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Just saw the episode and i actually bolted up from the bed going "Did they just create Mt. Doom and Mordor????"

It was a really good episode with some very good action, high stakes and twists - something House of Dragon might take a cue from. Now that we are nearing the end of the season i expect even more awesome reveals and events that will shape the rest of the second age.

There goes the neighborhood.

 

[Gov Kodos]

There goes the neighborhood.

I don't know…a little paint, a few flowers, a couple of throw pillows…

 

[Orphalesion]

It is very possible that next episode they reveal that the whole burning cloud thing that seemed to incinerate houses was really not all that bad and everybody just stands around covered in ash/dust.And it was all just done for the sake of a a cliffhanger.
The latter seasons of Game of Thrones did that a couple of times.

In fact I think it's almost certain, since they can't exactly kill Galadriel and she just stood there letting the thing wash over her.

 

[thribs]

It is very possible that next episode they reveal that the whole burning cloud thing that seemed to incinerate houses was really not all that bad and everybody just stands around covered in ash/dust.And it was all just done for the sake of a a cliffhanger.
The latter seasons of Game of Thrones did that a couple of times.

In fact I think it's almost certain, since they can't exactly kill Galadriel and she just stood there letting the thing wash over her.

If you watched the preview for the next episode, you get an answer.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Pompeii was a lovely little mud bath. Great for the skin to cleanse the pores. No wonder G's skin looked so flawless in LotR. A regular pyroclastic surge scouring is the perfect exfoliant.

I imagine the microsized basaltic glass in the lungs helped deepen her voice to that impressive register we hear in the movies.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I can't recall Tolkien's works being other than vague about how Sauron took over Mordor. I thought it was a spectacular way to transform the Southlands into Udûn (although the Vale of Udûn is farther north). Just don't think too deeply about how such a contrived mechanism could have been prepared.

I think there might be something to the notion that Sauron was split into two entities by Adar, and that this series is bringing Halbrand and Meteor Man together to recreate him. Presumably, they would cast someone new to portray the reformed being who is the fair form of Sauron. He need not be called Annatar or "Lord of Gifts" as that always seemed to be an honorific to me. There's no Southland left, of which Halbrand can be lord, so that plot thread is pretty much terminated. It was just a way for the show to get him closer to Meteor Man. Neither of the two halves seem aware of their destiny other than being drawn toward it, sometimes reluctantly. Halbrand does seem to have awareness of his past as seen with his interaction with Adar, but Adar doesn't recognise him. I'm attracted to this theory but not completely persuaded that it's correct.