I'm about to re-watch the entire season on a binge in one go. Taking the dive. You know I'm crazy enough to do it. Let's see how this plays in one continuous block. My theory is watching Season 4 of DSC one episode at a time over 13 weeks is like watching The Batman 15 minutes at a time every week over 13 weeks. That's just not how they're meant to be seen. All I can say about this until I know for sure. But what are your thoughts? Does Season 4 play better when binged? EDITED TO ADD: I'll (re-)rate these episodes as I go along. "Kobayashi Maru" --> 8 "Anomaly" --> 9 "Choose to Live" --> 8
I binged it from episode 2 on – months removed from the S4 premier - and it held up from episodes 3 through 9 to me.
This post to be edited as I go along. Observations for "The Kobayashi Maru" I think I know why, in-story, Adira has become Tilly 2.0. They're a teenager and think Tilly is someone to look up to. They want to emulate Tilly and so is starting to act more like her. Tilly's well-liked and has the charm. So maybe Adira thinks that will make them as well-liked as Tilly. This might be how I'd think if I were in my teens and not my early-40s. Trying to be like the "cool kid" isn't something we'd do as adults, but it's something they'd do. Later on, after Tilly leaves, Adira looks up to Detmer. [EDIT: What I thought was reinforced in "Anomaly" when Culber tells Tilly flat-out that Adira looks up to her.] The foreshadowing at the beginning of the season, when Rillak told Burnham she wasn't ready to command Voyager because she isn't ready to anticipate all possible outcomes (including the possibility of failure) and implementing a plan anyway. I thought this was about Burnham not being able to be everything to everyone, now I see it was really about Burnham having to make a decision where she might not be able to save everyone. A slight difference. By the end of the season, Burnham is willing to make the Tough Choice regardless of what might happen. The worst didn't need to happen, all that we needed to see was Burnham being willing to make the choice. That was the goal, and it's stated upfront. Observations for "Anomaly" David Ajala really sells it as a man whose planet was destroyed. That grief on Book's face, and the stone-cold numbness in his eyes while he's still processing it, looks spot-on. I think Saru is like another Riker. He wants to be on the Discovery, just like Riker wanted to be on the Enterprise. It's one of those situations. Burnham talking to Saru about whether or not Book should pilot his ship to gather information about the anomaly instead of Detmer is the first instance in the season of Burnham having to determine what's best for a mission versus what's best for who survives. But, I do have to say Burnham would've been right to send Detmer instead since Book understandably is in such a shaken state of mind. Stamets: "Book, are you okay?" Book: "Don't ask me that again." Given how every other character on the Discovery would tell Stamets whether or not they're okay, Book's response sets him apart from everyone else and shows that his mind is in a different place than everyone else's. He's on a different path... which will eventually lead to something Tarka will be able to think he can talk advantage of when he's introduced later. Love the scene on the bridge with the Zero Gravity! When Tilly is reminding Adira that everyone's analyses get double-checked no matter who they are, that's Tilly in "Instructor At the Academy Mode" and she doesn't even realize it yet. They're planting the seeds here. Great insight at the end of the episode when Book finally tells Burnham about what he's thinking of when he thinks of what he lost with Kwejian. They packed a lot of character-building into this episode. Especially for Book, but also for Stamets, Tilly, and Adira. Observations for "Choose to Live" This episode is necessary in order to show how the Federation can deal with Ni'Var and its combined Vulcan/Romulan culture and society. Rillak and Burnham walk a tight rope to show they respect Ni'Var's ways. If they didn't, then Ni'Var would likely change its mind about considering rejoining the Federation. With the ways of Qiwot Milot, it put the possibilities of Ni'Var rejoining the most in jeopardy, so I can see why they chose to tell the story, to show the bumps along the way. I'm glad they had Gabrielle Burnham explain to Michael why J'Vini was so important to her. And it helped fill in some of the gaps for how Gabrielle ended up with the Qiwot Milot. They cared for her for a year and J'Vini selected Gabrielle as her Lost Cause. Gabrielle always came across as very frank, so a group of women who believe in Absolute Candor fits her like a glove. Great fighting choreography in the middle of the episode, right before J'Vini tells Burnham, her mother, and Tilly, "Choose to live." I felt bad when the Nun played by Mimi Cote was killed. I liked her from what little we saw. When Burnham questions how much honor J'Vini has, based on her actions, Gabrielle Burnham tells her, "The reasons matter." This comes up again later on, at the end of the season in regards to Book's actions, when Rillak tells Burham, "The reasons matter." Like trying to save a species from extinction. More foreshadowing and planting character seeds, using something unrelated to slip it in under the radar. Great dark-comedy moment when Burnham said she wanted Tilly to stay as bait for J'Vini. Tilly did say she wanted to get out of her comfort zone. I love new lounge area on Discovery. It feels very homey. That's some place I'd go during my off-hours. The A-Plot with the Qiwot Milot was the strongest, but the B-Plot with Book & Stamets on Ni'Var, and the C-Plot with trying to revive Gray in a gollum body were good too. Book getting a chance to "revisit" Kweijan in his mind allowed him to find some degree of peace (emphasis on "some") and really hammers home what exactly it is Book lost and the world he lost. Gray mentions having transitioned before, going from female to male. I think Discovery transitioned as well: from a 23rd Century set series to a 32nd Century set series. It also transitioned from what Bryan Fuller conceived to what Michelle Paradise has turned into her own. So Gray is a bit of a metaphor for the show. There was a lot more to this episode than I remembered or realized. EDITED TO ADD (3/8/24): For detailed observations of episodes starting from S4 Episode 4 onward, skip ahead to Page 2.
I am curious to rewatch Disco S4 when P+ comes my way, to see if daily episodes instead of weekly make it hold up better.
Real Life got in the way. I don't have time to do a single binge. I work full-time, my house is being renovated, I'm working on two (very) independent films on the side... and I just need a day all to myself to do this, which I haven't had. Oh, and family things as well. Anyway, 13 episodes means I need 10 straight hours. Plus I've been posting my thoughts as they occur to me so I don't lose them. So that makes it take longer. I overestimated the amount of time I had. I will do a 13-episode-in-a-row binge, but I need the proper time to do it. You see me posting here, but that's only one aspect of my life, among many others.
I think you mean 'Golem' body... Though it might have been cool to see Culber present his Gollum design. 'How about this for Gray? Is it precious enough?" Great thoughts so far and I hope I'll be doing DSC S4 myself before long. I totally feel you regarding time. It just took me the best part of the year to marathon. ENT S1.
I got a like on this thread. Time to bump it back up. I'm up to the last five episodes. I'm binging these. I won't comment as I'm watching them, sometime this week, so I'll going in and I'll see you on the other side. But, for starters, here are my ratings for episodes 4-8 on a 10-scale. "All Is Possible" --> 7 "The Examples" --> 8 "Stormy Weather" --> 10 (everything I think Star Trek should be) "... But to Connect" --> 10 (works on two levels, more on this later) "All In" --> 8 Average of the first eight episodes of the season: 8.5 EDITED TO ADD: "Rubicon" --> 9 "The Galactic Barrier" --> 7
How has time, and binging, changed your ratings, for the better or the worse? After rewatches, I sometimes feel that my initial reactions may have been a tad... gushy. lol But also, episodes I was low on at first, improve.
It's not a question of better-or-worse, more like I picked up things I didn't notice before, made connections I didn't make before, and know what to look for now that I know where this is going. For example, I thought about giving "... But to Connect" a 9 instead of a 10, but changed my mind. It's presenting Star Trek arguments on two different fronts: One, accepting Zora as her own lifeform instead of AI. As I've said before, this is "The Measure of a Woman" to TNG's "The Measure of a Man". I thought TNG's episode was a little better, which was why I was thinking about going with a 9, but then that brings me to... Two, the debate floor where they hash out whether or not to make peaceful contact with Species 10-C or attack. Burnham is pushing to communicate instead of attack. One thing that stands out to me now that didn't before is that Burnham advocating not to attack shows how far she's come since "The Vulcan Hello" when she was pushing to attack the Klingons. It's also great to see so many races from all four quadrants getting together and voting on this. On another level, this shows how far the Galaxy has come over the centuries in a way that other episodes haven't. I left most of these episodes unrated before, because I was trying to make out where it was going. I genuinely liked all of it on initial viewing, so that alone put it into the 7+ range anyway. There wasn't a single episode that I only thought was "kind of okay" (which is what I'd give a 6). Whereas I ran into those a few times between the most recent seasons of PIC and SNW. This is the way it usually is for me: Initial Reaction: "Wow, I think this is great!" After I've Seen It Again: "Now I'm going to go into articulating why I think it's so great, as I have time!" Season 2 went down a little for me. With Season 3, "it's complicated". Some stuff went up in my opinion, some stuff went down. Season 1 stayed where it was. Season 4 looks like it's staying more or less the same. This is why I put S1 and S4 above S2 and S3.
While I like most of the individual S2 episodes, rewatching makes the changes from whatever Harberts/Berg had originally planned more glaring.
Skipping way ahead to post my thoughts on "Rosetta". I have to get everything out there now while it's still fresh on my mind. This episode is where I'll end up having an Unpopular Opinion. This episode reinforces my feeling that it's "the calm before the storm." I remember someone freaking out one time about how Species 10-C was going to make its move in 29 hours and started loudly complaining about the pacing of this episode. The thing is, as I just re-watched it, I think this episode plays almost in Real Time. An hour watching this episode is almost like an hour happening in the actual episode. 29 hours is longer than you think, when you break it down hour-by-hour-by-hour. Ever had a job where things were slow during an hour in your shift? That's when you feel how long an hour really is. Ever get stuck in a waiting room or put on hold on a phone for an hour? That's when you find out how long an hour really is. So, no, I don't have an issue with the pacing here. President Rillak's pep talk to Doctor Hirai didn't grate on me on second viewing. She does have a point about watching what you say in a diplomatic mission. They're trying to keep everyone, including Ndoye, confident that Burnham, Saru, Culber, and Detmer will be able to learn more about Species 10-C before actually contacting them. When Book talks to Ndoye, I kept thinking, "Oh no! Ndoye's going to be put into a really tough spot!" When I was first watching the season, I thought it would be the beginning of the end of her career. I'm glad they ultimately didn't go that route, since she has good intentions, as does Book, and only wanted to look out for saving lives. The visuals in this episode are great. Anyone who says they don't think Burnham, Detmer, Saru, and Culber marching towards the shuttle bay doesn't look awesome is lying. That looks awesome. I don't care what you think about the show, that was a great shot. And I liked how alien the surface of the planet looked. The space suits were great too. This also fits what I think of as Star Trek, but we don't get to see it that often. The crew going in a mission on a planet that actually feels alien! Great callback to how grave the situation is when Saru feels fear for the first time since Season 2. Adira feels like a teenager trying to branch out and make friends with other people, starting with who she idolizes: Detmer. It has to be strange for her, not being around too many people her own age. It feels like the Tal host is a lot less dominant than Dax ever was with Jadzia or Ezri, but then Ezri also felt very young and not much like Dax. So maybe the Symbiont is more a vessel for memories than an actual personality. Ezri felt very jumbled up, and maybe Adira's also very jumbled up. She seems more Tilly-esque this season without being Tilly. The weakest part of the episode is when Tarka captures Reno. This is where you can tell the most that Covid had an impact on the production. Tig Notaro was only available for a limited window to shoot all her scenes for the entire season, and with strict quarantine procedures, I'm guessing they couldn't really show a Tarka/Reno fight or her struggling while being captured. You'd think she would've notified Security immediately, but I'm going to guess Tarka moved fast before she could. Still, like I said, it's the weakest part of the episode.
Finished re-watching the season. Like I said, life prevented me from having a full day where I could do a proper binge. So much for "binging" Season 4. But that's water under the bridge... I think the season still holds up. I also am of the opinion that the fourth season is the best season of the series. I like it better than the first season, which had been my favorite before. Some people think they dragged out contact with Species 10-C, but I disagree. I think it couldn't be as easy as 1-2-3 and happen as fast as "wham, bam, thank you ma'am." Communicating with a species with whom the Universal Translator won't work will take time and we got to see that here. When the Discovery crew finally began to truly communicate with Species 10-C, it reminded me of when Kirk was able to communicate with The Companion in "Metamorphosis" (TOS). For you non-TOS Fans who don't know what I'm talking about, look it up. It was also the opposite of "The Changeling" and Star Trek: The Motion Picture where Nomad and V'Ger wanted to exterminate "imperfect" or "not true" life forms. Species 10-C didn't realize the inhabitants of the Milky Way were sentient and stopped using the DMA once that was communicated to it. This is pure Star Trek. It doesn't get any more Star Trek than that. For anyone who's upset that Stacey Abrams appeared as the President of Earth, you know where Discovery stands politically. Don't get upset over things you already know. I think it was great to see her there. She was able to play a politician, because she is a politician. I've said elsewhere that I appreciate the 32nd Century's more enlightened version of justice and they're making Book do what he said he wanted to do and actually help planets disrupted by Species 10-C. That's making someone who had good intentions do something useful for society instead of having him rot away in a cell, not solving anything or helping anyone. People in the 21st Century take note. And life continues on for Discovery and her crew. After re-watching Burnham tell Rillak she doesn't want command of Voyager, I'm now thinking probably for sure the new Captain who'll be in Season 5 will be taking command of it. That's all I've got. I'll give the Season Finale a 9. "Kobayashi Maru" --> 8 "Anomaly" --> 9 "Choose to Live" --> 8 "All Is Possible" --> 7 "The Examples" --> 8 "Stormy Weather" --> 10 "... But to Connect" --> 10 "All In" --> 8 "Rubicon" --> 9 "The Galactic Barrier" --> 7 "Rosetta" --> 8 "Species Ten-C" --> 7 "Coming Home" --> 9 Average --> 8.31, rounding up to the nearest half-point of an 8.5 because I think DSC Season 4 was more than the sum of its parts, unlike PIC Season 2 which I thought was less than the sum of its parts. Moving on to that season next, in the Picard Forum.
Agree with you a lot. It is nice to see actual positive comments about the show. I think a lot of fans hate it just to hate it and don't give it a chance. I thought season 4 was phenomenal. In my opinion, it has gotten better every season. Burnham is not my favorite captain nor Discovery is not my favorite Trek but it still is a very good show. People are way to hard on it.
Loved this thread; I think you underline perfectly that S4 was actually one of the best, thought out seasons of modern Trek; it’s a simple, effective story about understanding, communication and grief, and I loved it the first time around..!
I watched it over a month and quite enjoyed it. It might have felt a bit slow over 13 weeks, but in that shortened space of time it all held together as a continuous story. And for once they managed to stick the landing with a solid finale which wrapped everything up! It hasn't got back to the thrill of the first couple of seasons, but S4 was a big improvement over S3.
I binged it over the course of this week - probably 3 or 4 days, on bathroom breaks, lunch breaks and after putting the kids to bed. I don't even know what happened in which episode. So lets start from the top: Kobiyashu Maru brings the restored Federation to life. Has funny moments with Michael and Book. Tarka is basically Dr. Soran from Generations, willing to let everything burn in order to get to his alternate universe. His villain was overpowered plot wise - as a whole, I rate his subplot maybe a 4, 5. After DMA 2 shows up, I feel like the Season dropped in quality - a Huge, Galaxy Ending Threat - and chasing down Species 10C took too many episodes. As for Stacy Abrams showing up, seriously she is far from the first politician to make an appearance on Star Trek. Voyager had a Saudi prince as a background. Season total score brings me to 7-8 out of 10. I liked it, had some issues, and maybe the run time was a little too long.
Rosetta is an astounding, all-encompassing piece of science fiction to me. It works better with the following 2 episodes, but connecting the crew's exploration with something this alien, and letting it resonate with them is nearly perfect within the drama and Star Trek's mandate to know the unknowable. The only letdown is the coda, in which they verbalize what could be left unsaid. It was also the best looking episode on TV the entire year. 11/10
Indeed thank you for your thread..... The whole start and build up of communication with 10-c kept making me think of The Arrival another good movie. I just couldn't get that out of my head watching all those scenes, and especially when they do make their very first up close appearance.