I just watched it all the way through and thoroughly enjoyed the dramatic tension of it all. All the stories weave together in such an interesting way.
Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series
- Thread starter Cyrus
- Start date
It's a difficult feat to pull off if you don't want to cycle rapidly through the cast who play mortals or confuse and exasperate the audience.
I agree that the multiple lacunae of hundreds of years where nothing seems to happen in the Second Age is baffling. Tolkien wasn't keen on the inclusion of the Appendices. Perhaps he recognised that it made it difficult to revise the timeline if he ever did want to write a novel based in the Second Age.
We know that real history can be inaccurate and incomplete so I see no reason why that of Middle-earth shouldn't be likewise. Who are the supposed chroniclers of these thousands of years of the lands of a large continent with its varied races and how are they preserving their records, which should be crumbling into dust with age or burning as Orc armies ravage the land? Are the memories of the Elves and later the Istari reliable enough?
Ugh so it looks like the guy with the Hobbits is Sauron, eh? Really when it looked like Galadriel was sent back to Middle Earth I was hoping this was their version of how Sauron (Halbrand) ended up in Numernor, even if that wouldn't quite work out with the timeline (then again who knows what the timeline is?)
And so "Atar" is really an Elf who works with Orcs? Then again with his cryptic words to...I forgot Sylvan Elf's name...he might be Sauron after all, but he sure needs to glow-up before he can hope to charm the Elves of Eregion.
I did like the interactions between Galadriel and Miriel, not gonna lie. that was pretty good. I'm also very on board with the whole Queen Regent set up they have, I think that can very much work to the show's benefit.
But can I say how disappointed I am with Disa? In her promo picture she seemed to have this quiet, queenly dignity and strength about her, I hoped that would mean the Dwarves in general get to be a little bit more dignified than the comic relief they were reduced to in the old movies.
And yeah Disa is a strong character, but...that keening scene aside, she's about as dignified as a Hobbit, which really clashes with her character design. She even cooks the meals herself. The wife of the son of the King of Khazadum cooks for herself. She should have servants to do that!
It was also probably said already multiple times in this thread, but I think this show really suffers that they couldn't get the right to any of the stuff outside the appendixes.
I'm starting to wonder how many of their...unusual... decisions are a result of them just trying to avoid being accused of infringing of material that appears in the Sil, the HoE and the Tales from Middle Earth. Maybe they did send Elrond to the Dwarves rather than Galadriel (which would have made more sense) and sent her on this whole odyssey with Halbrand because her interactions with the Dwarves of Moria and her hand in connecting it with both Eregion and (what would become) Lorien are described in the TfME.
If you think about it, it's really kinda like adapting a book but you only own the rights to the blurb on the back of it, not to the book itself.
And so "Atar" is really an Elf who works with Orcs? Then again with his cryptic words to...I forgot Sylvan Elf's name...he might be Sauron after all, but he sure needs to glow-up before he can hope to charm the Elves of Eregion.
I did like the interactions between Galadriel and Miriel, not gonna lie. that was pretty good. I'm also very on board with the whole Queen Regent set up they have, I think that can very much work to the show's benefit.
But can I say how disappointed I am with Disa? In her promo picture she seemed to have this quiet, queenly dignity and strength about her, I hoped that would mean the Dwarves in general get to be a little bit more dignified than the comic relief they were reduced to in the old movies.
And yeah Disa is a strong character, but...that keening scene aside, she's about as dignified as a Hobbit, which really clashes with her character design. She even cooks the meals herself. The wife of the son of the King of Khazadum cooks for herself. She should have servants to do that!
It was also probably said already multiple times in this thread, but I think this show really suffers that they couldn't get the right to any of the stuff outside the appendixes.
I'm starting to wonder how many of their...unusual... decisions are a result of them just trying to avoid being accused of infringing of material that appears in the Sil, the HoE and the Tales from Middle Earth. Maybe they did send Elrond to the Dwarves rather than Galadriel (which would have made more sense) and sent her on this whole odyssey with Halbrand because her interactions with the Dwarves of Moria and her hand in connecting it with both Eregion and (what would become) Lorien are described in the TfME.
If you think about it, it's really kinda like adapting a book but you only own the rights to the blurb on the back of it, not to the book itself.
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Disa is my favorite character after Elrond and Durin. Every scene with her is excellent.
Reading some of the complaints about time compression, I can't help but wonder if people have forgotten that Peter Jackson's movies did pretty much the same thing in the name of a coherent narrative. In the books there's a jump of almost two decades between Frodo getting the ring and Gandalf returning with exposition . . . and then he waits another several months before deciding to leave the Shire, and in much less of a hurry than in the film. There are many more examples of course. That's just the earliest and most obvious one.
I think if one were adapting the Sillmarillion as a series of animated shorts (my preferred method) then one can be more book accurate in telling the sweeping "big picture" stories, but for this kind of show there really isn't any other way to tell the story that wouldn't be painfully dull and drawn out. Even if one were telling a much more focused story like 'Children of Hurin' there would necessarily also have to be some compression, some omissions, and some inventions. That's just how adaptation works.
I think if one were adapting the Sillmarillion as a series of animated shorts (my preferred method) then one can be more book accurate in telling the sweeping "big picture" stories, but for this kind of show there really isn't any other way to tell the story that wouldn't be painfully dull and drawn out. Even if one were telling a much more focused story like 'Children of Hurin' there would necessarily also have to be some compression, some omissions, and some inventions. That's just how adaptation works.
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I wonder if there will be a big twist and it turns out Halbrand, Atar, and The Stranger are all three different aspects of Sauron?!
To be clear, this is a wild and crazy speculation and I don't actually think it'll happen nor do I think it should, but at the same time I wonder...
To be clear, this is a wild and crazy speculation and I don't actually think it'll happen nor do I think it should, but at the same time I wonder...
I don't know if I'm willing to go that far. The old Death-Eater barkeep said the falling star was an omen of Sauron's return, but that doesn't mean Sauron was actually riding it. Indeed, if Sauron (or Morgoth) knew or suspected that wizards could be sent to Middle-Earth to stop him, it'd a perfect thing to tell his followers to look for when they scattered; the falling star wouldn't be him directly, but a sign that his power had rebuilt sufficiently for him to be considered a threat by the folks upstairs, and it was time to be ready to rejoin the fight (it's very exciting to have an opinion about this without having a solid grasp on the proper names of everyone involved since I've watched most of the movies, one time each; it's like when I talk about the motivations of the invisible people from Battlestar Galactica who were never conclusively identified).
Ha. So like and eventually they meet up and fuse back into "complete Sauron"? I'd be up for that, that would definitely be something right out of the lefty field!
Perhaps Adar is Eöl of Nan Elmoth, who forged the sentient black sword Anguirel and his black armour from galvorn metal of meteoric origin. Of course, they don't have the rights to use these names. If the blade Theo has is Anguirel - with whatever name they choose to give it - that would give Adar a reason to want its return. Eöl is supposedly dead but I guess it's conceivable he survived his fall from Caragdûr. He does appear to bear scars.
Another wild thought that's probably wrong - has it been established that Meteor Man is a Man and not an Elf or half-Elven? We've heard Eärendil's name dropped so could the Valar have returned him from space to oppose Sauron? All the signs indicate he's probably an Istari though.
Another wild thought that's probably wrong - has it been established that Meteor Man is a Man and not an Elf or half-Elven? We've heard Eärendil's name dropped so could the Valar have returned him from space to oppose Sauron? All the signs indicate he's probably an Istari though.
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Of course the real twist comes when they actually all turn out to be Mephisto!
Seriously though, I think there's a little bit of a deliberate shell game going on here, what with so many mysterious non-book accurate characters floating around. Obviously going in they know the audience is going to be on the look-out and trying to guess when and where the giant eyeball bloke is going to show up, so it's not surprising that they'd use some of these characters as red herrings.
Of course just like an actual shell game, it's only a short-con, so they shouldn't be keeping it up for long. It's only a matter of time until Annatar shows up.
Going into this, I rather assumed that he'd already be in Numenor, Wormtongueing up the joint (now there's a vivid mental image . . .) But unless they're going to pull a switch with Pharazon being Annatar the whole time, so far that doesn't seem to be the case. So if they're going to stick with closer to the book version of events, Sauron is currently in Mordor, and will be captured and brought back to Numenor.
That seems to imply that Adar is the prime suspect . . . but I don't think so. I think it's more likely that we just haven't seen Sauron show himself yet, in any guise.
Robert Townsend?
I dunno, even considering the actor they picked for Celebrimbor (who, again, is canonically younger than Galadriel) the guy is a bit old and a bit bearded to be an Elf.
Plus if it was Earendil...where's the Silmaril?
I still hope he's Gandalf. Of course that opens up the question where the other Istari are.
The Elf Círdan has a beard and not only in Peter Jackson's movies. I doubt Meteor Man is Eärendil though - Elrond mentioning him was only to address Durin's daddy issues.
Could be. It would annoy some people, but it would be a cool special power that goes beyond shapeshifting, and it would allow compression of the timeline. It does seem Halbrand might be remaining on Númenor to cause mischief, although I could be wrong. However, I doubt either Meteor Mike or Adar is Sauron.
Did he have a beard in Peter Jackson's movies? I remember him being beardless, at the very least in the prologue.
And by the time we see him in the Lord of the Rings books he is the only known Elf to have entered the "third cycle" of Elf life (by which time Elves can grow beards) which probably makes him quite a bit older than all the other Elves still around in Middle Earth (and very, very much older than Earendil, even by the third age)
(there is another Elf who is mentioned as bearded by the way; Mathan the father in law of Feanor who was the only known elf who grew a beard during the second cycle of his life, and one of the few mentioned elves with red hair.)
(and there was maybe a third, depending on whether you consider Tinfang canon for the later mythology)
Can confirm: Cirdan, as he appeared in Jackson’s FoTRs prologue, didn’t have a beard - and neither did he sport any fuzz, when seen again at the Grey Havens, in RoTK - preparing the boat for Elrond, Celeborn, Galadriel and Frodo to leave the shores of Middle-Earth - bound for Valinor.
My speculations for end of season 1:
* From Numenor, and Lindon - the alliance of Men and Elves will gather and converge on the Watchtower of the Southlands, and a season finale will ensue.
* Sauron will be revealed and captured at the end of the season (with the prospect of being taken back to Numenor as prisoner - for season 2)
The Queen Regent will either die on the battlefield during the finale battle - with Ar-Pharazon taking up the mantle of leadership of Numenor - or alternately return to Numenor victorious in battle with Sauron as prisoner - only to be ousted in season 2, when Sauron starts beguiling her peoples.
* Sauron will be revealed and captured at the end of the season (with the prospect of being taken back to Numenor as prisoner - for season 2)
The Queen Regent will either die on the battlefield during the finale battle - with Ar-Pharazon taking up the mantle of leadership of Numenor - or alternately return to Numenor victorious in battle with Sauron as prisoner - only to be ousted in season 2, when Sauron starts beguiling her peoples.
With our powers combined, we make Captain...er... Sauron!
Oh, duh! Of course! I could I forget that twist!Of course the real twist comes when they actually all turn out to be Mephisto!
I suspect you're right about all of the red herrings and we haven't even seen Sauron yet. But this season has done a great job at keeping us readers all guessing.
Different aspects of one being throughout the land is an interesting idea, one that's been utilized in other stories, I just don't know if it would be an ideal fit for Tolkien.
With our powers combined, we make Captain...er... Sauron!
Different aspects of one being throughout the land is an interesting idea, one that's been utilized in other stories, I just don't know if it would be an ideal fit for Tolkien.
I don't think it's gonna happen, but it would be particularly interesting if some or all of them don't even know they're parts/emanations/whatever of Sauron but he created them in such a way that they would carry out his plans without realizing (and so nobody could not be revealed as him to his enemies)
What if Halbrand actually thinks he's the good guy who will save the humans of the Southlands but really he's just a trap to get the Numenorians close to where Sauron can influence them and even he only will learn what/who he really is when it's already too late?
Would lend a kind of tragic to it.
And it's probably more interesting than what will actually happen :-P
On a minor note, I noticed Pharazôn specifically named the city of Armenelos, which doesn't appear anywhere in LotR, The Hobbit, or the Appendices. This, again, makes me wonder if Amazon did indeed get permission to use some stuff from other sources. However, Gandalf referenced the two Blue Wizards in The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (though not by name), and they're only mentioned in Unfinished Tales, which Warner Bros. didn't have any rights to, either, so it's possible they just used it and got away with it.
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