Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Cyrus, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. Jedman67

    Jedman67 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I imagine Adar is a non-cannon "cousin" (or brother) of Maeglin, supposing Amazon chose not to ask (or did not receive) the rights to Maeglin; he was another elf who grew up in BD, got shunned by the local kingdoms, and made his way to the service of Morgoth.

    I'm leaning towards Istari for Meteor Man, but hopefully not Gandalf.
     
  2. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Problem is that the show can't use names or events from the Silmarillion but i don't know how precise that is.

    The producers may ( and already have) tiptoe around Silmarilion content and this could be their way to get Sauron to Numenor where he needs to be for the entire story to work.

    Then again all this may be red herrings - comet guy, Halbrand, Theo and Sauron may just be introduced in the season finale and all those other guys have other, new, roles to play. I like the idea though that Halbrand may be the Witch King to be, he at least seems to have royal blood in him and since the timeline of the show is heavily compressed anything is possible.
     
  3. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Yeah, I much prefer the idea of Halbrand becoming the Witch-King than him being Sauron. And not just because I do want to learn more about the Nine.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
  4. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wonder what will be Earien's fate. As a new character, not invented by Tolkien, anything could happen with her.

    Do you think she'll survive the drowning of Numenor (and becomes the architect of Minas Tirith), will she built the Temple of Morgoth (and possibly end up as a sacrifice in a cruel and ironic twist of fate) or will she turn into a Nazgul?
     
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  5. saddestmoon

    saddestmoon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Interesting points: I’ve also been wondering what becomes of her… and I feel they are maybe setting her up for a more prominent role yet to be revealed.
     
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  6. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

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    The show appears to be pairing Eärien up with another invented character, Kemen, the son of Pharazôn. I assume she will be involved in building the 500-feet tall Temple of Morgoth but she and perhaps Kemen will escape the Fall of Númenor. I expect she would also be involved in building Minas Anor, later to become the new Minas Tirith; the first one having been destroyed in the First Age. I could see Kemen perhaps becoming a Nazgul. I don't think they'll go with Eärien becoming one or we're in controversial boob-armour territory again.
    Other pointers that some have suggested for Halbrand being Sauron, beside his interest in smithing, are that Bear McCreary's leitmotifs for the two characters are similar and translations from Sindarin of the name Halbrand include "hidden lord" and "high noble" as "hal" is a homonym.
     
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  7. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    I remember reading that Amazon could indeed get permission on a case by case basis for things outside of the Appendices. Can't remember where I read that, however.
     
  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    See, I remember reading something like that, too, but apparently it was just a rumor on TheOneRing.net and not a widely reported story like I thought it was. But this usage of Armenelos does make me wonder...
     
  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I do think she survives the Downfall, and I do think she designs not only Minas Anor (which will eventually become Minas Tirith) but also Minas Ithil (which will become Minas Morgul) and Osgiliath in between them.
     
  10. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

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    Since the lifespan of that line continued to be extremely long passed down to Aragorn (who lived to over 200 and I think was in his 80s during the LOTR) it's not unreasonable to think the show could actually have 'time-jumps' and still have some of those characters remain the same visually. So maybe could even show that development/construction depending on the narrative.
     
  11. eschaton

    eschaton Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can't believe the season is half over already and basically nothing has happened. Like, it's all been setup. There's not even really been an inciting incident yet. Just some teases regarding Sauron.

    I'm starting to worry that whatever the season finale is going to be, it's not going to really weave together all four of the plots which have been teased out so far. That we're going to have to wait until Season 2 begins to even have the story properly get started.
     
  12. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

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    If you think this is boring, try reading the Appendices on which it's based.

    The problem is that Tolkien's main theme was the contrast between death and deathlessness. Corrupted by Sauron wielding the One RIng, the long-lived Númenórean King's Men led by Ar-Pharazôn came to envy the immortal Elves because the Elves knew their fate upon death - potential rebirth in Valinor, which was literally a heaven on Arda. It wasn't because they thought the Elves were stealing their jobs, which they obviously aren't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2022
  13. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    True, not much has happened yet.


    Oh come on! That doesn't even begin to make sense! The appendices are just lists and general descriptions of events, of course that's not gonna be thrilling.
    But the events listed and described could very well be interested, the show just hasn't done much of that yet.
     
  14. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

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    I think the series is more interesting than the Second Age as described in the Appendices, which make very little sense in the huge time periods that elapse without seemingly anything happening at all. The Silmarillion fills in the odd detail but Amazon didn't want to shell out for that.
    Well, we'll probably get all of the notes but not in the same order. Tolkien didn't care much for the dark and depressing Second Age where no-one really wins. He also gave up on writing a story about the Fourth Age for similar reasons. He was more interested in the First and Third Ages, where Morgoth and Sauron get their comeuppances.

    Now, it someone were to adapt stories about the First Age and perhaps some of the Years of the Trees for background, I think that would make for some cracking Fantasy TV. Tolkien and his wife's gravestones are inscribed Beren and Lúthien for a reason.
     
  15. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    Speaking as someone who's read the main text of The Lord of the Rings many times, but only gone through the indices in their entirety once (but have re-read various passages), I'm really enjoying seeing this adaptation of the material.

    As with any adaptation, I've come to accept that it's not going to match the source material exactly. Peter Jackson's material didn't, the animated movies didn't, so why should I expect Rings of Power to? Just give me an entertaining story and I'll be happy with it.

    And while I am really enjoying it so far, I agree with those that something big needs to happen sooner rather than later. I think waiting for the season finale for epic action would be too long of a wait.
     
  16. ashefivekay

    ashefivekay Captain Captain

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    I thought the first season was 20 episodes? Nevermind, that was something said before they even started filming.
     
  17. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

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    Only eight episodes apparently. Then presumably a year to wait for the next tranche.
     
  18. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The table gag was funny. I need to try that on someone. :)
     
  19. Asbo Zaprudder

    Asbo Zaprudder Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure who the people on the trail of Meteor Man were - Silvan Elves or people from Rhun, Rhovanion or the East? That they are white-robed does suggest they are not devotees of Morgoth. Their ears are hidden so Elves is a possibility. According to IMDB, the characters are the "Dweller", the "Nomad" and the "Ascetic", whatever that signifies.

    Meteor Man does appear to have powers similar to Sauron's and he seems to question whether he is "good". I don't know whether he is speaking Quenya, Valarin or Black Speech. I had been forming the opinion that Halbrand was Sauron in disguise but now I'm not sure. Halbrand seemed pretty keen to stay in Númenor rather than accompany Galadriel on her mission. However, if he starts to take an interest in what Celebrimbor is up to, that'll be a dead giveaway.

    Nenya, Galadriel's ring, was crafted from mithril so I assume one of the properties of the three Elven rings is to allow the Elves to remain in Middle-earth. However, Elron's ring, Vilya, was crafted from gold, I think. I don't recall ever hearing the story about the origin of mithril that Elrond related to Gil-Galad previously so I think it's an invention of this series together with the other stuff that those two spouted in this episode. In the lore, mithril was known about before the Second Agee IIRC. However, I don't trust my memory sufficiently to state that is so.
     
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  20. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

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    The mithril origins is definitely not something from the books. The origins of mithril from the 'leaking power of a silmaril infused 'tree' also is not something from the books. It also (as said before) was not confined to this one specific mountain.

    I think the whole elf warrior fighting a Balrog on a mountain top was likely heavily 'influenced' by Glorfindel in the first age and his fight against a Balrog... The show does not have rights to the book of lost tales so it was likely altered significantly to what was shown (and obviously no name given for the 'elven warrior')

    Also the use of 'mithril' to somehow keep the Elves from 'diminishing' is not something ever encountered, but I think that may actually be a red herring. Gilgilad shows the rotting tree and thought to send Galadriel away like somehow that would fix it. When in actuality the rotting may very well be because of the CONTINUED EVIL that has not left, has not been vanquished and is rebuilding/growing.
     
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