Enterprise era Vulcans deserve all the hate and more

[bobjones]

First off, if you haven't seen enterprise please do so as there are spoilers here.

I wish to flesh out first contact as a precursor. Let's give credit to the vulcans for not conquering Earth as they easily could have.

Not conquering Earth shows they are both civilized and ethical, but perhaps their ethics only run on a surface level.

Earth in those early days would have all but been a vassal to Vulcan. Enterprise shows this relationship repeatedly. The vulcans seemed to have veto power over many aspects of human civilization. Delaying warp capability for a hundred years could have doomed earth as shown in twilight. They stunted technical progress. As far as I can tell the Vulcans did not share technology.

Again, as shown in Twilight, post human genocide the vulcans did nothing to help humanity survive. The vulcans provided No relocation, no technology, no support and no aid. What struck me in that episode, The andorians were shown to have helped humanity more by granting life saving technology. Meanwhile the Vulcans we're happy to let human extinction run it's course.

This is a damning indictment of the vulcans at the time

 

[Oddish]

There was no human genocide while the Vulcans were there. WW3 had already ended.

 

[somebuddyX]

Vulcans had no obligation to help anyone.
Vulcans didn't hold Earth back, they just didn't give them a leg up with advanced technology. We seemed to have got our shit together better than they did after they nuked their whole dang world so they were probably wary of us. Everything we know about Vulcan holding back Earth comes from Johnny Archer bitching and moaning because his dad didn't get to see his engine come to fruition and yet the wonders of mankind actually travelling in space was still only in it's first hundred years. "Aw gee son it would be swell to see this engine come to life, but never mind that now because we are literally living in a science-fiction novel. Also Ambassador Pointy is a shit insult, come up with something better ffs."
Vulcans were being manipulated by Romulans up until the fourth season, until the E-team unwittingly put a stop to it. So the timeline from "Twilight" is one where that influence is still going on twenty years later. There's probably Vulcans who in that timeline think it sucks that Earth got blown to bits and humanity is almost extinct but it's still a logical outcome for a species who went out into space sticking their face into people's problems before they were ready.
Prime directive etc and so forth.

 

[Ragitsu]

ENT badly misrepresented the Vulcans; they were the Space English for the United States...excuse me, "Earth", to rebel against.

 

[Jeyl]

"Enterprise era Vulcans deserve all the hate and more"

That's the real trick, isn't it? It's easy to hate the Vulcans when the writers write them that way. A reviewer who goes by SFDebris pointed out a trend regarding how Archer and T'Pol behave around each other. Whenever Berman and Braga write the episodes, Archer treats T'Pol like absolute garbage. Any disagreements and he berates her and her whole race like they were the worst thing to ever happen in this universe. But when Berman and Braga are not writing the episodes, Archer acts like a decent human being.

One moment that SFDebris points out is from the episode 'Regeneration'. When T'Pol believes that the Borg victims are beyond saving and that the assimilated ship must be destroyed before they harm anyone else. Archer simply tells her that he's not ready to give up on them just yet. He doesn't scold her for giving up on them or berate her for her cold logic. He simply wants to do what he can before resorting to that scenario. And after doing that, he comes to the same conclusion and orders the ship be destroyed and we get a nice moment between the two of them where they discuss what lies ahead.

This whole 'Vulcans are mean a-holes!' mentality is something I wish was never a thing. They may approach certain situations differently, but they do share the same values as Humans do. The episode 'A Taste of Armageddon' has one of my favorite Spock moments where you think he'd be all for something, but he's not.

SPOCK: There is a certain scientific logic about it.
ANAN: I'm glad you approve.
SPOCK: I do not approve. I understand.

And I like that. Even with their pure logic, they still have an open mind about things they don't agree with.

 

[valkyrie013]

Easy to think someone is an A hole when you think there holding you down/back.. When in fact, they have there reasons to do it. You may not like there reasons, and this was communicated quite clearly in S1 and S2 when the E Team interacted with any Vulcans. But by S3-4 they had some mutual respect going, with the vulcans pretty much saying we were wrong to try to hold you back so much. You were ready for what is out there, though you had some stumbles.

and as said, the vulcans don't have to help. They may have given some technology to help clean up radiation, or polution, or help feed people, non military stuff, or help them build a ship that would last more than 5 minutes in space. But for the rest, on your own, good luck. were here just to make sure you don't blow yourself up.

 

[bobjones]

I would agree pre twilight. Post twilight no way. Please rewatch twilight and get back to me. Vulcan response was abhorrent.

 

[Ragitsu]

Doesn't Archer eventually mention to Soval or maybe T'Pol that he finally understands how the Vulcans felt?

 

[Nerys Myk]

ENT badly misrepresented the Vulcans; they were the Space English for the United States...excuse me, "Earth", to rebel against.

Still no.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

ENT badly misrepresented the Vulcans; they were the Space English for the United States...excuse me, "Earth", to rebel against.

A bold statement that unfortunately falls apart under scrutiny.

 

[Ragitsu]

A bold statement that unfortunately falls apart under scrutiny.

If your argument is "There are some TOS examples...", then I would point out that - at best - ENT took those abrasive outliers and inflated their representation until they became a racial standard.

 

[fireproof78]

A bold statement that unfortunately falls apart under scrutiny.

Indeed. Rarely are Vulcans portrayed as sympathetic. TOS started it, with T'Pau being a bit lofty in her opinions on Vulcans vs. humans. TNG had few Vulcans, but the one from "The Gambit" was not exactly polite. Same with DS9 and "Take me out to the Holosuite." ENT didn't do anything really that new.

 

[Oddish]

Doesn't Archer eventually mention to Soval or maybe T'Pol that he finally understands how the Vulcans felt?

Yes, in "Dear Doctor".

 

[Nerys Myk]

The "outliers" are pretty much all we have.

 

[bobjones]

In proving ground commander sharn again shows us how horrible the vulcans we're to the humans. He pointedly asked where humans Vulcan allies we're?

Shran illustrated Andorians moral superiority to the Vulcans, as the Vulcan's have not assisted their allies on Earth despite possessing the resources to do so.

We know what shran was ordered to do, but he was willing to help. And he did help, soval did Jack, and repeatedly wanted tpol to quit

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

In proving ground commander sharn again shows us how horrible the vulcans we're to the humans. He pointedly asked where humans Vulcan allies we're?

In "The Expanse" and "Impulse" we learn the Vulcans sent ships into the Expanse immediately to help, but both ships were lost with all hands because trellium drove them all insane and they killed each other.

Shran illustrated Andorians moral superiority to the Vulcans, as the Vulcan's have not assisted their allies on Earth despite possessing the resources to do so.

You might want to take another look at "Kir'Shara," where Shran tortures Soval even though Soval is trying to save Andoria from a Vulcan invasion.

We know what shran was ordered to do, but he was willing to help. And he did help, soval did Jack, and repeatedly wanted tpol to quit

When Soval tells T'Pol in "The Expanse" that the VHC has ordered her not to go with Enterprise, they both already know about the loss of the Vulcan ship Vaankara in the Expanse. Soval and the VHC are likely trying to protect T'Pol from the same fate that befell the Vaankara (and it turns out they were right).

Of course the Vulcans are flawed. The whole series is about peeling back the allegedly superior and wise veneer of the Vulcans and exposing those flaws, and watching them get back on the path of Surak's teachings. There will still be duplicitous, conniving, prejudiced Vulcans in TOS (T'Pring, even the esteemed T'Pau), but mostly they do seem to have gotten their act together by then.

 

[WarpTenLizard]

ENT badly misrepresented the Vulcans; they were the Space English for the United States...excuse me, "Earth", to rebel against.

YES. This fits right in with the show's overall redneck-pandering. I genuinely blame "Enterprise" for the swaths of Trumpanzees now whining about "new Trek" having too much diversity. They seem to expect all of Starfleet and Earth to be 'murica!, like "Enterprise."

 

[Finn]

I bet the Romulans had something to do with the Vulcans doing nothing in Twilight.

 

[Nerys Myk]

YES. This fits right in with the show's overall redneck-pandering. I genuinely blame "Enterprise" for the swaths of Trumpanzees now whining about "new Trek" having too much diversity. They seem to expect all of Starfleet and Earth to be 'murica!, like "Enterprise."

Nope. There's always been a nasty underbelly to fandom.

 

[Greg Cox]

If your argument is "There are some TOS examples...", then I would point out that - at best - ENT took those abrasive outliers and inflated their representation until they became a racial standard.

How are they "outliers" if they're how the Vulcans were originally portrayed on the original series?

Heck, the very first full Vulcan we ever saw, T'Pring, plotted to get Kirk or Spock killed in order to avoid an arranged marriage. While Sarek refused to speak to his own son for eighteen years because he disagreed with Spock's career choices, concealed a serious heart condition from his own wife, and was described by Spock as being perfectly capable of cold-blooded murder if he had a "logical" reason to do so.

And, again, these were the first Vulcans we ever saw. From the very beginning of STAR TREK. Not "outliers."

Never understood the objections to the way ENT portrayed Vulcan. Seemed just like the TOS Vulcans I grew up on.

The Vulcans were never meant to be role models. As far back as TOS, they were emotionally repressed extremists who were never as noble and logical as they pretended to be. And, later on, need I mention Valeris?

Just because Spock is admirable doesn't mean all Vulcans are.