Surnames in Star Trek

[Brennyren]

Uhm, I can concede that only because nothing on screen contradicts it, but let's be serious, an 80s tv show: of course in the mind of the writers she got husband's surname.

The writers' intentions don't constitute canon though -- unless what they intend is actually established on-screen. And you don't even know that was what was in their minds: even in the U.S., even in the 1980s, women keeping their original surname wasn't unheard-of.

Well, this is possibly just for marketing reasons. So you don't have to re-label all the merchandise.

So? Does it only count if their intentions were pure?

I always thought that was what was implied by Picard calling Riker "Mr. Troi" -- that Betazoid custom was for the husband to take the wife's surname.

I always had the impression that Betazoid culture was matriarchal (not sure why; was that ever actually established or is that just my personal headcanon?), in which case it would certainly make sense for the husband to take his wife's name. Or perhaps Ian would have (and Riker could have) taken his Betazoid spouse's name in recognition of the Troi family being part of Betazoid aristocracy,

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The look on Picard's face when he calls Riker "Mr. Troi" definitely suggests that it's a joke. All that's missing is the wink.

Jadzia Dax also did not alter her name when she married Worf.

That's because she's Trill. All joined Trill have their symbiont's name as their last name. Even if they marry.

 

[Tosk]

That's because she's Trill. All joined Trill have their symbiont's name as their last name. Even if they marry.

You're assuming an awful lot based on one example. Yes, Trill take the symbiont name as their surname. But that doesn't mean no Trill ever alters their name for marriage. She could have become Jadzia Worf* Dax, or some other variation. But ultimately, it doesn't matter why she didn't, it's still an example of a woman not taking the man's name when married.

Uhm, I can concede that only because nothing on screen contradicts it, but let's be serious, an 80s tv show: of course in the mind of the writers she got husband's surname.

Maybe so, but if that's your approach to the subject I don't understand what you want from this thread.

"I understand that this is a show made in the USA, but it is ridiculous that ALSO aliens use US customs regarding surnames. All married women have the surname of the husband, all children that of the father." "Shouldn't a show that embraces multiculturalism in this way try to get away at least a little from the chauvinistic customs of a single terrestrial culture at least in regards to such an important part of the individual as is the surname? Your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that the basic premise of the thread is not true. Not all women have the surname of the husband, and not all children the name of their father.

*I've always wished that Worf formally took Rozhenko as his surname, but c'est la vie.

 

[The Wormhole]

I've always wished that Worf formally took Rozhenko as his surname, but c'est la vie.

Always struck me as odd that he didn't, particularly since Alexander did go by Alexander Rozhenko, even when serving in the Klingon military.

 

[Wally]

If I recall it correctly, That also set up a gag surprise, when someone calls out "Captain Picard!" ... and Crusher responds.

Which is clearly her preference since she was originally Beverly Howard and only took the Crusher name after marrying Jack Crusher.

 

[Silvercrest]

Which is clearly her preference since she was originally Beverly Howard and only took the Crusher name after marrying Jack Crusher.

She may be the first one in her family to do so. "Sub Rosa" make multiple references to "the Howard women", implying that they retain the same last name regardless. And the episode specifically names Beverly's grandmother as Felisa Howard, which is fine if she's the mother of Beverly's father Paul Howard — but it also named a female ancestor, Jessel Howard, who lived 800 years earlier.

How do names work in that family, exactly?

 

[Tosk]

How do names work in that family, exactly?

Evidently the women kept their surname. Except Beverly, she's a rebel.

 

[Skipper]

She may be the first one in her family to do so. "Sub Rosa" make multiple references to "the Howard women", implying that they retain the same last name regardless. And the episode specifically names Beverly's grandmother as Felisa Howard, which is fine if she's the mother of Beverly's father Paul Howard — but it also named a female ancestor, Jessel Howard, who lived 800 years earlier.

How do names work in that family, exactly?

They are all wives of people who had "Howard" as a surname? I'm missing something?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

*I've always wished that Worf formally took Rozhenko as his surname, but c'est la vie.

Worf is too traditionalist a Klingon to ever do that, since Klingons don't have first and last names. And you'll notice the Rozhenkos didn't call him that either...they respected his culture enough to let him use the Klingon form.

Alexander, being raised by his mother, would of course be the exception.

In any case, Alexander could choose to call himself "Alexander, son of Worf" if he felt like it. Maybe that's the way he's listed on the books in the Klingon Defense Force?

As for Beverly, I always assumed she was one of the few Howard women who took their husband's name. Seems easy enough.

 

[The Wormhole]

Alexander, being raised by his mother, would of course be the exception.

Shouldn't that have meant he'd take the name from his mother's human family?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Shouldn't that have meant he'd take the name from his mother's human family?

That's...actually a good point, really. We have no idea what K'Ehleyr's own family life was like, or why Alexander doesn't have her human family name.

 

[Brennyren]

They are all wives of people who had "Howard" as a surname? I'm missing something?

Yes, you are. They're all direct female-line descendants of Jessel Howard, who had, and passed on, some biological trait (I forget, and I refuse to re-watch!) that made them suitable hosts for Ronin. A biological trait, after all, could not be passed from mother-in-law to daughter-in-law -- there's no biological connection between, say, me and my mother-in-law -- only from mother to child. The name, likewise, was passed from Jessel to her daughter, her granddaughter, and so on, until Felisa Howard, Beverly's grandmother, some 800 years later. It's as if my mother (say, Jinny Smith) passed her name on to me (Brennyren Smith), and I gave it to my daughter (Charlotte Smith), who passed it in turn to her daughter, my granddaughter (Nicole Smith). In this scenario, none of them/us take the name of husband or father. When Beverly Howard took Jack Crusher's name, she was actually rebelling against her own family's naming traditions.

 

[Wally]

I know it's non-canon but in the novelization of The Motion Picture, Roddenberry wrote that taking the paternal surname was a primitive throwback practice done by many humans in Starfleet who were now conservative but was rare of Federation citizens.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What I never understood was the confusion that apparently exists in universe about how Bajoran names work. That is in the episode Ensign Ro, Ro has to correct Picard and Riker when they refer to her as "Ensign Laren" and explain that in Bajoran tradition, the family name is first, the individual name is last.

I feel Ro's pain. Very few people get that my user name is in the Bajoran style.

 

[Vale]

By they way, it's interesting how Lwaxana, who was always depicted as very proud of her Betazoid heritage was perfectly ok with taking her husband's surname and giving it to their daughters too, something that a lot of people see as chauvinist even today.

Picard refers to Riker half-jokingly as "Mr Troi" in Nemesis. Given the matriarchal bent of Betazoid society as shown elsewhere, I suspect Lwaxana's surname was always Troi and that Deanna's father adopted it once they were married.

 

[Sgt_G]

All married women have the surname of the husband, all children that of the father.

When I was researching potential character names for my fiction writing, I ran across something that said Italian gender-equality law states that a woman will not take their husband's last name. (EDIT: Just looked in Wiki; seems that may have changed to be more like Spain where both names may be used.) And I saw another reference to an old law going back to the French Revolution that forbid anyone born in France from changing their birth-name for any reason, so it used to be illegal for a woman to take her husband's name, even hyphenated.

 

[Tosk]

I feel Ro's pain. Very few people get that my user name is in the Bajoran style.

To be fair, you have a surname the same as Major Kira's given name.

 

[Nerys Myk]

To be fair, you have a surname the same as Major Kira's given name.

Yep, so on a couple of occasions I was assumed female.

 

[Vale]

It's also a feminine Welsh name, though the emphasis there is on the first syllable rather than the second ("NER-ys"). See also – Carys, Gladys, Glenys...

 

[JesterFace]

About one surname in Star Trek, Sisko in Finnish means sister. =)