"Such men dare take what they want..."--Khan: Sexy or creepy?

[somebuddyX]

I like Khan a lot in TWOK but I didn't really like him when I watched "Space Seed" for the first time in the last few years. I thought the way he treated McGivers wasn't great and I thought Kirk was irresponsible for letting her go off with him instead of sending her to some shrink.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Interesting. I've always taken it as McGivers figuring out the truth before the rest of the crew. (And I'd also imagined she'd started the painting before they discovered Khan, but I think that's more debatable.)

Guessing someones religion from just looking at them is hard.

 

[Orphalesion]

.

I was thinking that Marla was attracted to historical figures, and would have signed her virtue over to any historical figure she happened to meet out in space.

That's a fetish.



Abraham Lincoln.

Leonardo DaVinci

Zephram Cochrane

Colonel Green.

I agree she had a fetish, but rather than it being just historical men, I think, were strong, dominant warlords/conquerors/warriors at least judging by her quarters.
So I don't think she would have fallen for Lincoln, DaVinci or Cochrane.
Colonel Green, maybe, though since he committed genocide maybe not, or at least hopefully not.

 

[Neopeius]

Guessing someones religion from just looking at them is hard.

Unless they are wearing the appropriate accoutrements. Guess which religion these two folks adhere to:

One wonders if Khan was supposed to be bearded and in a turban in the first draft.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

One wonders if Khan was supposed to be bearded and in a turban in the first draft.

McGivers thinks he's a Sikh just because of his name...

even though an observant Sikh would have a beard and a turban, Khan is obviously not religious anyway. Except maybe he worships himself...

 

[Guy Gardener]

McGivers thinks he's a Sikh just because of his name...

even though an observant Sikh would have a beard and a turban, Khan is obviously not religious anyway. Except maybe he worships himself...

Kahn was wearing a hibernation gown.

It's possible that he had to be groomed before he was hibernation ready?

She said Sikh while Khan was still in stasis.

The turban is because they are not allowed to cut their hair.

Did Ricardo do blackface for this?

I can imagine some lucky boy painting his chest with Coffee.

"from the northern India area I'd guess, probably a Sihk, they were they most fantastic warriors."

She new the leader was in the first pod and she was captivated by him, but Khan is supposed to be dead on Earth. Marla exclaimed "magnificent" when he survived revival.

4.30 into the episode we see that Marla is painting Roman Gladiators, a full year before bread and circuses.

 

[alchemist]

I agree she had a fetish, but rather than it being just historical men, I think, were strong, dominant warlords/conquerors/warriors at least judging by her quarters.
So I don't think she would have fallen for Lincoln, DaVinci or Cochrane.
Colonel Green, maybe, though since he committed genocide maybe not, or at least hopefully not.

Here’s some dialogue from of a scene in Act I that was filmed but cut:

YEOMAN BAKER
Hey, Marla, Hanson from the Physics
Lab asked if you were coming to the
Rec Room tonight…

MARLA
(shakes head)
Tell ‘Mister Afraid to Ask Me
Himself’ that I’m waiting for a
man who’ll break down my door and
carry me to where he wants me.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I agree she had a fetish, but rather than it being just historical men, I think, were strong, dominant warlords/conquerors/warriors at least judging by her quarters.
So I don't think she would have fallen for Lincoln, DaVinci or Cochrane.
Colonel Green, maybe, though since he committed genocide maybe not, or at least hopefully not.

Da Vinci when he was younger, was Alexander the Great.

Totally qualifies as a mass murderer.

Meanwhile you don't keep 500 wives, without killing a few people.

 

[mb22]

One wonders if Khan was supposed to be bearded and in a turban in the first draft.

According to Memory Alpha:

"In Carey Wilber's original draft of "Space Seed", the character that ultimately became Khan was of Scandinavian ethnicity and named Harold Erickson, and the backstory was slightly different in that he was placed in stasis aboard the Botany Bay as a means of getting rid of prisoners during an overpopulated era of Earth's history. Gene L. Coon's rewrites then transformed the character into Ragnar Thorwald, the genetically-enhanced leader of the "First World Tyranny", who hides behind the pseudonym John Erickson.

The casting of Ricardo Montalban as Khan prompted the writers to change the character's name to Sabahl Khan Noonien, after Kim Noonien Wang, a friend of Gene Roddenberry during the Second World War. Roddenberry had lost touch with him and hoped that his friend would see his name on television and contact him. (This was also the origin of the name of Noonian Soong.) NBC suggested changing the character's name to Govin Bahadur Singh, due to the racial implications of the name "Khan", but Roddenberry insisted on keeping Khan and Noonien. [1] [2]"

 

[Orphalesion]

Here’s some dialogue from of a scene in Act I that was filmed but cut:

Yeah, as I said.

Da Vinci when he was younger, was Alexander the Great.

Uh...no..And Da Vinci never went on to conquer most of the known world, or rule it or anything like that. He designed/created weapons but he never led armies or conquered lands himself. At least not that I know.
There is no possible mental acrobatics that would equate Da Vinci with Alexander the great.

 

[Commishsleer]

Yeah, as I said.


Uh...no..And Da Vinci never went on to conquer most of the known world, or rule it or anything like that. He designed/created weapons but he never led armies or conquered lands himself. At least not that I know.
There is no possible mental acrobatics that would equate Da Vinci with Alexander the great.

Yeh Requiem for Methuselah

 

[Kor]

McGivers thinks he's a Sikh just because of his name...

even though an observant Sikh would have a beard and a turban, Khan is obviously not religious anyway. Except maybe he worships himself...

McGivers speculated that he was "probably a Sikh" before she even knew his name, just from looking at him sleeping in the chamber. How she figured that is anyone's guess, since he didn't have any visual indicators of Sikhism.

...
Did Ricardo do blackface for this?
...

It's been debated, whether he had brown makeup for this role or not. I don't think there is any confirmation from behind-the-scenes notes or whatnot. Those more familiar with the ins and outs of film/TV production lean toward the viewpoint that his complexion seemed darker and differently-hued here than could be accounted for with a natural tan, considering how he appeared in some other roles as well as TV commercials from around this time going into the 1970s. As has been mentioned in other threads, although Montalban was born in Mexico, he was not of Mestizo origin; both of his parents emigrated from Spain. On a social level, he did face discrimination and marginalization in American show business as a "brown person," in his own words, since was from Mexico.

Kor

 

[Trekker09]

Here’s some dialogue from of a scene in Act I that was filmed but cut:

Yikes, that deleted scene makes Marla even more of an obvious, stereotyped male writer's fantasy.....reminds me of Helen Noel imagining Kirk carrying her off from the Christmas party to his quarters ("Dagger of the mind").

 

[Neopeius]

McGivers speculated that he was "probably a Sikh" before she even knew his name, just from looking at him sleeping in the chamber. How she figured that is anyone's guess, since he didn't have any visual indicators of Sikhism.


It's been debated, whether he had brown makeup for this role or not. I don't think there is any confirmation from behind-the-scenes notes or whatnot. Those more familiar with the ins and outs of film/TV production lean toward the viewpoint that his complexion seemed darker and differently-hued here than could be accounted for with a natural tan, considering how he appeared in some other roles as well as TV commercials from around this time going into the 1970s. As has been mentioned in other threads, although Montalban was born in Mexico, he was not of Mestizo origin; both of his parents emigrated from Spain. On a social level, he did face discrimination and marginalization in American show business as a "brown person," in his own words, since was from Mexico.

Kor

This was him on Mission: Impossible the same week:

 

[scotpens]

I like Khan a lot in TWOK but I didn't really like him when I watched "Space Seed" for the first time in the last few years. I thought the way he treated McGivers wasn't great and I thought Kirk was irresponsible for letting her go off with him instead of sending her to some shrink.

"Sending her to some shrink" for what? Marla was an adult, a Starfleet officer, and showed no signs of mental illness. She was fully responsible for her actions. Kirk gave her the choice of facing a court martial or going with Khan. She freely chose the latter.

The idea that McGivers might need "therapy" certainly wouldn't have occurred to Kirk -- or to TV audiences in 1967.

 

[Silvercrest]

Kahn was wearing a hibernation gown.

It's possible that he had to be groomed before he was hibernation ready?

McIvers painted a painting of Khan after she met Khan.

Are we sure?

What if McIvers painted a painting of Khan before she met Khan.

Then the painting should've had a beard and turban.

 

[Warped9]

Then the painting should've had a beard and turban.

Not if she were recalling actual historical photos of him.

 

[Ragitsu]

Awesome turban.

 

[Orphalesion]

Yeh Requiem for Methuselah

Ugh, right, that nonsense. Sorry I tend to ignore it when Star Trek does the "ancient/historical aliens" stuff.

 

[Neopeius]

The idea that McGivers might need "therapy" certainly wouldn't have occurred to Kirk -- or to TV audiences in 1967.

All Federation criminals go to therapy. Only a few of the incurables end up like Garth...