I know, but the point is that there is enough room to explain why he didn't kill Sisko. If his sole mission was to destroy the sun, then that's the mission he would focus on carrying out.
The Emissary, The Prophets, and the Pah-wraiths
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I know, but the point is that there is enough room to explain why he didn't kill Sisko. If his sole mission was to destroy the sun, then that's the mission he would focus on carrying out.
Yeah but why WOULDNT he kill Sisko? Hes right there! I'll tell you why. Its because the writers didnt think of it.
The writers didn't know that Bashir was a changling yet that's why.
While killing Sisko would be nice, it wasn't the changeling's primary mission. And just because Sisko's on the surgical table does not mean that he is a vulnerable target, not with his nurses and possibly other doctors nearby. And there is bound to be an inquiry when Sisko dies, the changeling could be discovered because he took a risk to complete a non-objective as far as his mission was concerned.
I agree
Sisko had a previosuly unheard of condition. It would be so so easy to kill him there and blame it on some unknown factor. Im glad that you guys have been able to justify it for yourselves but im just anal about stuff like this. If the writers were going to pull something like this, they should have planned it out better.
well i think if he killed sisko at that point, there would be some kind of thorough investigation and his cover could be blown off.
the founder's mission was not the assasination of sisko, so the risk of taking this action was too high to justify it.
as for him not having sufficient medical knowledge to perform the surgery, i think when the founders decided to replace a high-ranking MEDICAL SF officer, they've chosen an appropriate replacement, with good enough skills to fill the role. With Dominion's advanced genetics i don't think there would be a problem with lack of medical expertise.
On Earth the changeling O'brien could have just as easily killed Sisko as well, but he didn't. I really don't think the Dominion cared that much about Sisko that they would put him on the list of people to kill.
They could have just Bashir when they replaced him, I can understand why they might keep Tain and Martok alive, but Bashir is just a young doctor not exactly a high priority to capture for information. Maybe the Founders don't believe in needlessly killing others, even solids.
They could have just Bashir when they replaced him, I can understand why they might keep Tain and Martok alive, but Bashir is just a young doctor not exactly a high priority to capture for information. Maybe the Founders don't believe in needlessly killing others, even solids.
^Agreed. They had their own plan in motion and killing Sisko wasn't part of it.
As for the original topic - it was pretty poorly handled post season 4. The Prophets have no concept of linear time and consider Sisko to be a destructive influence, yet they were the ones that conceived him?
And what started as a mysterious journey was concluded in an absurdly cartoony fashion. Nope - they fucked it big time with a lack of foresight and planning.
As for the original topic - it was pretty poorly handled post season 4. The Prophets have no concept of linear time and consider Sisko to be a destructive influence, yet they were the ones that conceived him?
And what started as a mysterious journey was concluded in an absurdly cartoony fashion. Nope - they fucked it big time with a lack of foresight and planning.
Agreed, when Sisko turned out to be their kid, i thought that was just silly and a hollow attempt to make the universe revolve around Sisko. I always thought that the Prophets should stop showing up. They were well conceived in Emissary but after that they forgot that they dont have linear time.
Spot on. As HRHTheKING has also rightly pointed out, Dukat was always evil. He was a raving egomaniac who felt the need to be loved (or at least respected) by those he oppressed. Remember that pre-Waltz lecture to Weyoun during the Occupation Arc about how you must not only defeat your enemies, but make them understand they were wrong to oppose you in the first place? I would argue he really only cared for Ziyal because she fed his own ego.
As far as Bashir goes, I agree with the arguments why a Changeling wouldn't have let Sisko die in Rapture. However, I think its equally likely that Bashir was captured after Rapture. Bashir says he was taken in the middle of the night, and the older style Starfleet uniform may have been what the Dominion had on hand to dress him with, since it wouldn't make sense to steal his wardrobe as well. He's been in the prison about a month, IIRC, and if one uses the standard 1 episode = 2 weeks ratio, Rapture would have been almost two months prior to In Purgatory's Shadow. Certainly, at least a couple of weeks pass during The Begotten alone.
The Prophets had no concept of linear time prior to their first encounter with Sisko. They clearly gain some understanding of it during Emissary, and it is that encounter which prompts them to ensure Sisko will be born by having a Prophet possess Sarah Sisko. They do seem to exhibit a degree of linearity in their dealings with Sisko after this. I think it all fits well enough.
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My whole question is why didn't Joseph Sisko suspect anything wrong with Sarah Sisko? From the few possessions we've seen by the Prophets and Pah-Wraiths, it's hard to imagine Sarah Sisko acting any where near normal for a human while a Prophet occupied her body. That part always bothered me. It just sounds like Joseph Sisko took advantage of someone. I forgot how long they were married before the real Sarah left him, but it just seems odd that Joseph Sisko didn't sense anything peculiar about her.
As for how the Prophets were handled, I think that the writers probably felt pressure to come up with a concrete explanation of their role as the series was winding down and that's why they went with the whole Sarah Sisko storyline. I agree it was much better when the Prophets and Sisko's role as Emissary were a little more mysterious and undefined.
I didn't have a problem with the Pah-Wraiths because they were established earlier when one of them possesed Keiko (even though that episode wasn't all that special if you ask me). It even makes sense for Dukat to align himself with them to get back at Sisko and the Bajoran people. Even though it made Dukat a more transparent character, he was motivated by revenge to join the side that was against the Prophets and Sisko. Where the writers slipped up, is when they made Dukat actually believe in the Pah-Wraiths instead of just using them to get the upper hand. Essentially, Dukat became a pawn of the Pah-Wraiths, and that weakened the character a great deal. It was always better when Dukat's deeds were his alone so the characters and the audience could judge him. In the end, Dukat became pitiful when he needed to be menacing to provide the ultimate foil for Sisko.
As for how the Prophets were handled, I think that the writers probably felt pressure to come up with a concrete explanation of their role as the series was winding down and that's why they went with the whole Sarah Sisko storyline. I agree it was much better when the Prophets and Sisko's role as Emissary were a little more mysterious and undefined.
I didn't have a problem with the Pah-Wraiths because they were established earlier when one of them possesed Keiko (even though that episode wasn't all that special if you ask me). It even makes sense for Dukat to align himself with them to get back at Sisko and the Bajoran people. Even though it made Dukat a more transparent character, he was motivated by revenge to join the side that was against the Prophets and Sisko. Where the writers slipped up, is when they made Dukat actually believe in the Pah-Wraiths instead of just using them to get the upper hand. Essentially, Dukat became a pawn of the Pah-Wraiths, and that weakened the character a great deal. It was always better when Dukat's deeds were his alone so the characters and the audience could judge him. In the end, Dukat became pitiful when he needed to be menacing to provide the ultimate foil for Sisko.
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I thought it was well written through out the series .At the end leaving us questions to ponder as to the characters fate.
Keiko when she was possessed seemed to act perfectly normal. She/it had to tell Miles that there was a "demon" inside of Keiko, on that was ready to kill the host. The only other time we see possession (that I can remember) is in Rapture. In that case the aliens possessing the hosts don't try to pass themselves off as that individual. So it seems that they are able to pass themselves off as a normal person. So Sarah possessed could be just like a normal person and that is why for 2 or 3 years Joseph didn't notice anything. But the entire timeline of events with Sisko and his birth is still rather confusing.
Sisko really was just as much of a pawn of the Prophets as Dukat was for the Pah-Wraiths. One was used to try to free one group, the other to condemn that group.
Umm, kill the man who, after waking up, would stumble out of the infirmary and start ranting about how Bajor must not accept military protection from the Federation? I'd consider that a bad career move for a Dominion agent!
For all we know, the fake Bashir implanted in Sisko the idea that Bajor must remain defenseless, possibly by whispering in his ear during his vulnerable sturpor...
Indeed, that's just how I'd expect folks without sense of linearity to behave. Effect before cause and all that.
Which is sort of funny. Why would they become linear "after", when they didn't recognize the concept of "after"? Why not become linear "before"? But perhaps what Sisko taught did gradually take hold, so that the Prophets lost their ability to think and act against the flow of causality.
Timo Saloniemi
But if Bajor did join the Federation, wouldn't the Feds then be more eager to defend the system. Station more assets there and whatnot, which could mean a larger quantity for the changeling to destroy in the attack on the sun. That said if the changeling succeeded would Dominion fleets even be able to enter the alpha quadrant after the sun has exploded?
The mission of the Bashir Changeling need not have been limited to blowing up the star. Indeed, that may have been late improvisation as the result of recent developments. For all we know, the fake Bashir was sent primarily to supervise Odo, and to facilitate his transformation back into a Changeling in "The Begotten", in case he proved worthy.
As for the end results of blowing up the sun, the wormhole was said to be nigh-indestructible after the phaser sabotage. And the nova would probably quickly pass, allowing the Dominion to enter freely.
However, we might wish to consider the possibility that there never was any nova-bomb. The whole thing could have been a diversion at a key moment to allow the wormhole sabotage to succeed and the fleets to come through unhindered - the fake Bashir need not have had a protomatter bomb for real. It would be a bit contrary to the Founder nature to engage in that sort of mass destruction when in all probability the station was teeming with other Founder agents, and the redeemed Odo certainly remained within blast radius.
Timo Saloniemi
As for the end results of blowing up the sun, the wormhole was said to be nigh-indestructible after the phaser sabotage. And the nova would probably quickly pass, allowing the Dominion to enter freely.
However, we might wish to consider the possibility that there never was any nova-bomb. The whole thing could have been a diversion at a key moment to allow the wormhole sabotage to succeed and the fleets to come through unhindered - the fake Bashir need not have had a protomatter bomb for real. It would be a bit contrary to the Founder nature to engage in that sort of mass destruction when in all probability the station was teeming with other Founder agents, and the redeemed Odo certainly remained within blast radius.
Timo Saloniemi
But the sensors on the Defiant registered the bomb. You make a good point though. Why would the Founders send on of their own on a suicide mission? Theyre fanatical about protection of the Founders. Why would they send one to blow himself up?
Well then why didnt he? He blew up when his bomb went off and there was no beaming him away. He didnt even try to beam it into the sun. It was a suicide mission, no question.
