SNW Chapel seems to have all of TOS Uhura traits.

[Richard S. Ta]

Modern ST does relationships decently most of the time. About the only pre-2017 ST that did relationships decently was DS9, and that was still hit and miss sometimes.

I know O’Brien and Keiko are the famous couple, but that’s still (usually) the old ‘Hectoring Wife ‘ and ‘Long-Suffering Husband seeking solace with his Best Male Friend’ set of cliches. Complete with a dartboard in a pub.

I think Trek’s attitude towards relationships pre DSC is hit and miss, but it’s attitude to sex before 2017 is juvenile in the extreme. Especially once Berman was in full swing.

 

[Pauln6]

I thought Paris and Torres were quite well done.

 

[Mudd]

Spock/Chapel/T'Pring is awesome.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Stonn is sad.

 

[Sci]

I know O’Brien and Keiko are the famous couple, but that’s still (usually) the old ‘Hectoring Wife ‘ and ‘Long-Suffering Husband seeking solace with his Best Male Friend’ set of cliches. Complete with a dartboard in a pub.

I was thinking more about Sisko and Kassidy, Odo and Kira, and Garak and Bashir. But yeah, the writers leaned on that trope way too much with Miles and Keiko. Although even there, I think Keiko wasn't particularly hectoring. I think she was usually being reasonable and Miles took her for granted TBH. (One of DS9's greatest sins was not hiring on Rosalind Chou to the main cast to give Keiko a more prominent role.)

I think Trek’s attitude towards relationships pre DSC is hit and miss, but it’s attitude to sex before 2017 is juvenile in the extreme. Especially once Berman was in full swing.

Definitely. Especially in ENT.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Definitely. Especially in ENT.

Any modicum of subtlety Berman had towards the topic goes out the wonder in ENT. I'm not sure Braga helped either.

 

[Therin of Andor]

With respect I would disagree with your asessment of Chapel as "fading out altogether to the point she's working at Starfleet HQ on Earth." This is fading out? She's a Command rank now.

Sounds like a promotion to me. Perhaps she is "Head of Starfleet Medical", like Crusher did for a year?


Star Trek IV cue card for Majel Barrett by Ian McLean, on Flickr

 

[Pauln6]

Sounds like a promotion to me. Perhaps she is "Head of Starfleet Medical", like Crusher did for a year?


Star Trek IV cue card for Majel Barrett by Ian McLean, on Flickr

Nice find! Apparently there was more technobabble that didn't make the cut. I wonder if any of that is out there?

As a full commander, Chapel could run her own ship!

 

[Therin of Andor]

Nice find! Apparently there was more technobabble that didn't make the cut. I wonder if any of that is out there?

We are getting off topic, but yes, I have seen the complete sides used by Chapel and Rand. (They were online.) Grace went over to the Roddenberry mansion to rehearse with Majel.

David Gerrold brought them to over to a charity auction at a 1988 New Zealand convention, Converge, for which he was auctioneer. This particular cue card was supposedly written hurriedly, by hand, by the director, Leonard Nimoy. (It is rare for a director to do the cue cards, but Barrett and Whitney were especially invited to be in this movie by him.) In 1996, I was able to surprise Majel Barrett with it at a Conquest convention in Brisbane, Australia, and asked her to autograph her own cue card. She was amazed to see it again.

 

[FederationHistorian]

That scene in ST09 really is a prime example of rape culture: It literally depicts a man sexually harassing a woman by disregarding her stated boundaries seven times, but it depicts these actions as the charming antics of a harmless rake rather than as the indications of potential danger that they would be in reality.

So, are you going to be advocating that there should be a warning before the film that it depicts rape culture whenever ST’09 airs on tv?

Where do NuKirk’s encounters with Gaila, the Caitian twins and Carol Marcus fit in with rape culture?

Gaila, he was deceiving so that he could get to reprogram the Kobayashi Maru and beat it. Deceiving someone for sex is deemed unacceptable in today's world.

Caitian twins were a conquest. Are we to assume Kirk made the same play with them as he did with Uhura – that as you say is rape culture - but actually succeeded?

Carol Marcus, he peaks at her while she’s undressing when she clearly told him to not look.

Definitely. Especially in ENT.

Its an interesting creative choice for B&B to depict a post-WW3 Earth has being juvenile towards sex.

Maybe that’s why love instructors exist in the 23rd century.

 

[Sci]

That scene in ST09 really is a prime example of rape culture: It literally depicts a man sexually harassing a woman by disregarding her stated boundaries seven times, but it depicts these actions as the charming antics of a harmless rake rather than as the indications of potential danger that they would be in reality.

So, are you going to be advocating that there should be a warning before the film that it depicts rape culture whenever ST’09 airs on tv?

Do you understand what the term "rape culture" means?

Gaila, he was deceiving so that he could get to reprogram the Kobayashi Maru and beat it. Deceiving someone for sex is deemed acceptable in today's world.

According to whom?

Carol Marcus, he peaks at her while she’s undressing when she clearly told him to not look.

Which was a blatant act of sexual harassment by her commanding officer.

Maybe that’s why love instructors exist in the 23rd century.

The idea of "love instructors" could, if depicted in a manner that is genuinely egalitarian and consensual, be a genuinely progressive and emancipatory idea.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Gaila, he was deceiving so that he could get to reprogram the Kobayashi Maru and beat it. Deceiving someone for sex is deemed acceptable in today's world.

That's entirely deleted scenes and not in the movie at all, so I say it shouldn't count. Deleted for the very reason of how it made Kirk look.

 

[EnderAKH]

Deceiving someone for sex is deemed acceptable in today's world.

It really, really isn't.

 

[FederationHistorian]

It really, really isn't.

Not sure what your talking about, since that's not what I put

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Not sure what your talking about, since that's not what I put

You edited your post after @EnderAKH quoted you.

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

Not sure what your talking about, since that's not what I put

Editing your post and accusing the other poster of deceit is chicken shit. Any more like that and a Trolling warning will be yours.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Editing your post and accusing the other poster of deceit is chicken shit. Any more like that and a Trolling warning will be yours.

It really, really isn't.

You edited your post after @EnderAKH quoted you.

Editing your post and accusing the other poster of deceit is chicken shit. Any more like that and a Trolling warning will be yours.

Um, I’m not trying to troll. Not except sure where this attack came from.

I have been on other message boards when entire posts of mine and other users get removed for the most benign, uncontroversial stuff. And my posts have been edited too; sometime for swearing, sometimes for other stuff. The point being, I have been around some boards that tends to disagree with me. And so I don’t use them anymore. But I do know that this stuff does happen.

Now you may not believe me, and that’s your right and the other poster. However, if I genuinely believe that I did in fact type “unacceptable” instead of “acceptable” before clicking submit, then that’s what I said. And I reserves the right to correct it if I do think that its possible that autocorrect chose to spell something else, which is another possibility. But I’m not going to start taking pictures of my post to reassure everyone that I’m telling the truth. I can’t own up to a goof I genuinely don’t believe I had committed in the first place.

Not sure what you expect me to do, especially when I try to be as careful as possible with everything that I post.

 

[Pauln6]

Um, I’m not trying to troll. Not except sure where this attack came from.

I have been on other message boards when entire posts of mine and other users get removed for the most benign, uncontroversial stuff. And my posts have been edited too; sometime for swearing, sometimes for other stuff. The point being, I have been around some boards that tends to disagree with me. And so I don’t use them anymore. But I do know that this stuff does happen.

Now you may not believe me, and that’s your right and the other poster. However, if I genuinely believe that I did in fact type “unacceptable” instead of “acceptable” before clicking submit, then that’s what I said. And I reserves the right to correct it if I do think that its possible that autocorrect chose to spell something else, which is another possibility. But I’m not going to start taking pictures of my post to reassure everyone that I’m telling the truth. I can’t own up to a goof I genuinely don’t believe I had committed in the first place.

Not sure what you expect me to do, especially when I try to be as careful as possible with everything that I post.

Autocorrect is a batch.

 

[Sci]

@FederationHistorian , no one would have held it against you if you had said, "Oh crap, I typed in the wrong word. I meant to write 'unacceptable,' not 'acceptable.' Apologies for the confusion." Two different users quoted your post as using the word "acceptable;" there's no need for some song-and-dance about how you didn't edit your post but if you had it would be okay blah blah blah. Just say, "Hey, I goofed. Sorry." Typos are not a big deal; pretending you didn't make a confusing typo, on the other hand, is dishonest.

Now, please answer my question: Do you understand what the term "rape culture" means?

 

[fireproof78]

That's entirely deleted scenes and not in the movie at all, so I say it shouldn't count. Deleted for the very reason of how it made Kirk look.

Definitely for the best and I don't think should count.