Oberth: Getting From There To Here

[Bry_Sinclair]

We all know the Oberth-Class has a bizarre design, with the two hulls connected by those weird pylons that really aren't large enough to fit a turbolift down, so what if the class utilised some sort of intraship transporter? Not a system that used the transporter emitters on the exterior of the hull but maybe something hardwired through the pylons connecting two platforms allowing for quick and easy access, which would be usable even when the ship was at warp.

Would that be a do-able work around?

 

[Unicron]

I've always preferred the idea that the Oberth design family is simply a primary hull and a modular ventral pod system, thereby eliminating the need to try and squeeze turbolifts into the pylons.

 

[fireproof78]

I imagine a dedicated transporter internal system, i.e. pad to pad, with a fixed pipeline for the crew.

Also, that the Oberth is designed with a very modular secondary hull, meaning that it can be swapped out for mission appropriate modules, meaning it may have completely uncrewed secondary modules.

 

[Dukhat]

Also, that the Oberth is designed with a very modular secondary hull, meaning that it can be swapped out for mission appropriate modules, meaning it may have completely uncrewed secondary modules.

Too bad we never actually saw that function in any episode or movie. I know that they didn't want to spend more money on new filming models, but even if Greg Jein had built a new, more TNG-contemporary secondary hull add-on to go over the original secondary hull, it would have at least given the impression that the ship was newer than the same exact model from TSFS.

 

[fireproof78]

Too bad we never actually saw that function in any episode or movie. I know that they didn't want to spend more money on new filming models, but even if Greg Jein had built a new, more TNG-contemporary secondary hull add-on to go over the original secondary hull, it would have at least given the impression that the ship was newer than the same exact model from TSFS.

Yeah, that and the Excelsior having such long service lives was an odd thing to me in TNG.

 

[Dukhat]

Yeah, that and the Excelsior having such long service lives was an odd thing to me in TNG.

Most of their functions were just to ferry VIPs to the Enterprise, so having them be relegated to glorified transport ships by the TNG era wasn’t that hard to swallow. But then continually using myriads of them (and the Miranda class, an even older ship) in DS9 stretched credibility for me. Of course I know the in-real-life reason why they were used, but I would have thought that by DS9’s production there would have been more freedom to build newer filming models (or new CGI designs.)

 

[NCC-73515]

You can slide down and then beam up again

 

[Forbin]

I don't know why people are so obsessed with making that lower modular sensor pod a regular secondary hull with easy accessibility. The first time I saw it I assumed it was a modular pod, and, IIRC, the ship's designer has acknowledged that's what it is. Later on in TNG, they seem to have lost that notion and decided to assign occupied workspaces to it, but we've all seen the problems with that (hence this thread). As far as I'm concerned, it's an unoccupied modular pod (just like the Reliant's torpedo pod). Minor repairs on mission can be handled with transporters, wokbees, travel pods, and spacewalks, major repairs need a spacedock.

 

[Henoch]

The Oberth looks like it carries a large sensor pod beneath its only hull. The sensors arrays are probably very powerful having direct connection to the warp engines for power. The pod is not safe for human occupation, so, direct access is not planned. YMMV .

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I don't know why people are so obsessed with making that lower modular sensor pod a regular secondary hull with easy accessibility. The first time I saw it I assumed it was a modular pod, and, IIRC, the ship's designer has acknowledged that's what it is. Later on in TNG, they seem to have lost that notion and decided to assign occupied workspaces to it, but we've all seen the problems with that (hence this thread). As far as I'm concerned, it's an unoccupied modular pod (just like the Reliant's torpedo pod). Minor repairs on mission can be handled with transporters, wokbees, travel pods, and spacewalks, major repairs need a spacedock.

As a modular pod then some options might be for medical emergencies, transport of personnel, or other functions (hell maybe George and Gracie's offspring joins a mission to track down the Cetacean Probe and make peaceful contact) that might require individuals to travel between the two different hulls.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

As a modular pod then some options might be for medical emergencies, transport of personnel, or other functions (hell maybe George and Gracie's offspring joins a mission to track down the Cetacean Probe and make peaceful contact) that might require individuals to travel between the two different hulls.

Spoiler: Hypothetical Oberth Modules

You mean concept modules like these:

 

[Forbin]

As a modular pod then some options might be for medical emergencies, transport of personnel, or other functions (hell maybe George and Gracie's offspring joins a mission to track down the Cetacean Probe and make peaceful contact) that might require individuals to travel between the two different hulls.

Yes, but that's a separate, non-canon, fan speculaton issue.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Yes, but that's a separate, non-canon, fan speculaton issue.

Well we're fans and we're speculating. Nothing has ever officially been stated on screen that the secondary hull isn't habitable and used on a daily basis.

 

[Unicron]

Most of their functions were just to ferry VIPs to the Enterprise, so having them be relegated to glorified transport ships by the TNG era wasn’t that hard to swallow. But then continually using myriads of them (and the Miranda class, an even older ship) in DS9 stretched credibility for me. Of course I know the in-real-life reason why they were used, but I would have thought that by DS9’s production there would have been more freedom to build newer filming models (or new CGI designs.)

I suppose I'm on the opposite spectrum, as I'd have liked to see more modern vessels too (and personally, more of the interesting designs like the W359 models as regular ships) but I don't see any reason why ships couldn't stay in service for 50+ years or a century or longer. If they're successful in their parameters and make good workhorses, then to me it seems far more silly for them to only serve a fraction of that time. Even potentially sillier within the Trek context of having tools like replicators for parts fabrication.

If we're talking about more specialized vessels that aren't necessarily intended for large scale production, like the Defiant, that's a different story of course. But barring a major economic disruption like the Dominion War (with supplies being affected and shipyards taking damage) or an attack by powers like the Borg, I don't see any logic to not having a steady production of ships. We already have designs in the modern world that can stay functional for decades, if they're properly maintained.

 

[DSG2k]

Even the F-15 is still being built fifty years later, and after more advanced follow-ons, provided the F-15EX comes about. The EX is basically identical to the original, externally. See also the F-20, a marketing re-name of a re-engined F-5, many years later.

The unoccupied sensor pod idea seems like a good way to keep people from having to travel between hulls, but it really doesn't work. There will always be maintenance items, configuration changes, parts replacements, and so on, especially in the earlier eras. Even in the case of awesome ideas I just love like the Oberth as a multi-module pod hauler, there could be need to board the cargo pods, man some other pod, et cetera, just as we saw with dedicated freighters in the ENT era. (Heaven forbid any large equipment has to be moved between the hulls.) And I much prefer the idea of the primary hull having a way to power the warp engines attached to it.

Alas, all we ever see is the Oberth as always shown, and with what we must acknowledge as the secondary hull being a 'normal' engineering-hull space, at least for later iterations. In this, the Oberth is worse than the Constitution inasmuch as having a transportation bottleneck between the hulls, and per NCCs they are of an older design. For the Constitution I tend to assume this bottleneck was thought acceptable to mitigate risks related to the reactors from an early non-ejectable reactor period, be it radiation leaks or breaches . . . it's easier to ditch a hull when there's separation. (The Miranda, in this idea, was perhaps among the first large ships to have and rely on ejection systems, though as we know these aren't always reliable so the separate hulls idea hasn't gone away completely.)

Perhaps the original Oberth flight(s) carried a particularly powerful or interesting reactor at first, or some other specialized scientific thingamabob that's hard to shrink, and/but the design remained good enough to keep building the hulls for whatever reason. With so little to go on, though, and given the possible changes over the long duration of construction of the things (per NCCs), the sky's the limit.

 

[fireproof78]

Spoiler: Hypothetical Oberth Modules

You mean concept modules like these:

The Arkley makes the most sense.

 

[Unicron]

Even the F-15 is still being built fifty years later, and after more advanced follow-ons, provided the F-15EX comes about. The EX is basically identical to the original, externally. See also the F-20, a marketing re-name of a re-engined F-5, many years later.

Indeed, and the B-52 bomber has had a very long service life (since 1955, just shy of 70 years presently) despite the fact that its production window was much smaller (production ceased in 1962 after only about a decade). The F-15 is widely considered one of the best modern fighters ever built, even though newer designs like the F-22 have replaced it in some air forces.

Given that starships and other space based structures are significant expenditures to build, even with the advantages of Trekonomics, it's just another reason to get as much use out of them as possible. Even when you have a newly successful generation of technology, it takes time for those units to achieve a wide deployment.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Given that starships and other space based structures are significant expenditures to build, even with the advantages of Trekonomics, it's just another reason to get as much use out of them as possible. Even when you have a newly successful generation of technology, it takes time for those units to achieve a wide deployment.

Instead of scrapping old StarShips & StarBases. StarFleet can easily strip out the important Unique StarFleet bits and sell the remaining frames off to private UFP Citizenry who want to start their own businesses.

You can take out the Computers, Weapons, Replicators, Reactors, and let the civilians re-use the hull and put in their own private commercial Reactors, Replicators, Weaponry, Sensors, Computers, etc.

IRL, after WW2, many aircraft and vessels were handed down to veterans to start their own businesses.

I can see the same of the UFP & StarFleet by handing down last generation ships.

Imagine seeing Miranda Classes & Constitution classes in civilian hands, all tricked out with commerical equipment run by private companies.

 

[Unicron]

FASA actually suggested something like that, with older designs sometimes being refitted and sold on the civilian market or to governments that were not full members in the Federation, but might be either associate members (fewer benefits than full membership, but under protection from enemies like the Romulans or Klingons) or independently allied like some of the Triangle worlds. Starfleet had its own merchant marine branch.

The Klingon fleet tended to be controlled by specific houses, which seems to fit with the description of the fleet dispositions in "Redemption." Individual house leaders and commanders had a considerable amount of influence in specific areas. The Orions had a handful of original ship designs and a lot of Klingon ships, either bought during alliances or stolen, with the occasional other non-Orion ship in service.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Think about it, if you're a UFP citizen of good standing, and you want to start your own "Privatized StarFleet" to help folks, but you need a ship.

Think of every ship as their own individual privately run business.

If they lose their ship, they basically lost their entire business.

The Captain could be the primary mortgage holder with each department head signing off on partial ownership, or they can borrow from a UFP bank at fair interest rates.

There are all sorts of interesting deals that can go on if they gather their own "Space Frame" and just put in commercial hardware to replace StarFleet hardware.

Obviously you get to choose your own colors and design, but other than that, it could be like "FireFly" in the Star Trek Universe, but without the oppresive government to run away from and a more "Commercialized" venture.

Think Angel Season 5 of the Buffy Universe, but less evil lawyer corporation running the show and genuinely good people running the show.