Native Americans and Star Trek...
- Thread starter Ferengi Prime 5
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I have multiple issues with how all the Native Americans (or indigenous peoples) are handled in ST, going all the way back to Kirk hookin' up with Miramanee, and then just leaves after she's dead, leaving the sad tribals behind. I personally would have loved to see some show cover a pissed-off Salish going full-on KHAN! with the Federation.
And Chokotay's 'stuff' also grated. At least two people were spies right on his bridge crew, and he got lost 75K Lightyears from home... so much for his 'spirit guide'. I think it must have been Coyote in disguise. LOL
(rewatching Voyager right now, from beginning to end, and its amazing how many details stand out more on your third viewing like that).
In a least two other franchises Mars was given to Native Americans and others 'of color', which was kind of cool, but I suppose that would have been even more awful given the events of Pikard. But the point is that they were giving a new home within the Sol system - not hundreds of lightyears away on the border of a hostile, enemy spacestate. There are hundreds of Earth colonies so much closer to Earth - were those only good-enough for people with the correct background ("right speak")? And I am not just talking 'white', I mean anyone who will be a good little worker ant in the post-property, no-money, state-provides-everything-for-you dystopia cleverly disguised as a utopia? So, it seems to me that Native Americans wanted to be as far away from the overbearing, rules-oriented Federation as they could, and even decided Cardassia was the 'lesser of two evils'. And perhaps they were right. At least the Cardassians weren't forcing them onto a new 'trail of tears'.
Ya know, I just started also watching Pikard for the first time (binged it on two nights), and I thought I would hate it, but except for a certain character that had a singing moment, I actually liked it. And the main thing I liked about it was how it presented the Federation 'on the fringes', where it's not so shiny, and what happens to colonies the Federation doesn't want to spare the resources for. Its not a pretty picture, but deep down, I always knew it was there... now it is in canon. The people living in Rome-proper didn't know how crappy it was for everyone else either - they thought they were bringing culture, peace and civilization to the barbarians as well. When you get to that level of self-righteousness, you lose sight of what you've truly become. Cheers
^I've only seen S1 of Picard so far and I didn't like it too much because of its dystopian depiction, but this is certainly an interesting take on it.
People? What's with that high-falutin word? They just say "primitives"
.Anyhow, the notion of "ancient aliens" is amusing when you consider the fact that these extraterrestrial visitors apparently only found the non "white" cultures worthy of their time and effort. Some cultures are more boring than others?
Sums up my feelings rather well.
Having studied a variety of cultures over the years I can genuinely say, yes some cultures are more boring than others.
Pretty sure that's bogus.
...And do what, shake his fist at the sky? His world was centuries away from space travel.
Also, his people killed Miramanee when they kept throwing stones after she jumped in front of Kirk to save him. All Kirk did was lose his memory, save a kid from drowning, fall in love, get his memory back, then save the people who just killed the woman he loved.
There's a mention of Native Americans that catches my attention whenever I watch "The Omega Glory". It grabs my attention because it sounds bizarre.
Here's the dialogue:
KIRK: If my ancestors were forced out of the cities into the deserts, the hills.
SPOCK: Yes, I see, Captain. They would've learned to wear skins, adopted stoic mannerisms, learned the bow and the lance.
KIRK: Living like Indians, and finally even looking like the American Indian. American. Yangs? Yanks? Spock, Yankees!
That is so hokey.
Yangs over the Kohms. I suppose if John Sterling was doing a play by play of "The Omega Glory", he would end the broadcast with his shtick, "Yankees win. Thhheeeeeee Yankees win!"
Seriously ... "and finally even looking like the American Indian." Huh? So, people who live a non-urban or back to nature way of life are going to eventually look like the American Indian?
So the Yangs were a stand-in for American Indians?
If you also take into account the way the Native Americans were portrayed in "The Paradise Syndrome", it would seem that the TOS writer(s) operated with the notion that Native Americans are a people who are perpetually primitive.
In "The Paradise Syndrome", it was not ancient aliens but contemporary aliens (Kirk and co.), albeit using ancient alien technology, to save the lives of the blissfully ignorant natives from an incoming asteroid. In "The Omega Glory", again it was aliens who educated the savage nobles, the Yangs, about the true meaning of their holy documents.
In both instances, the clueless natives needed a big helping hand from the metaphoric aliens.
Here's the dialogue:
KIRK: If my ancestors were forced out of the cities into the deserts, the hills.
SPOCK: Yes, I see, Captain. They would've learned to wear skins, adopted stoic mannerisms, learned the bow and the lance.
KIRK: Living like Indians, and finally even looking like the American Indian. American. Yangs? Yanks? Spock, Yankees!
That is so hokey.
Yangs over the Kohms. I suppose if John Sterling was doing a play by play of "The Omega Glory", he would end the broadcast with his shtick, "Yankees win. Thhheeeeeee Yankees win!"
Seriously ... "and finally even looking like the American Indian." Huh? So, people who live a non-urban or back to nature way of life are going to eventually look like the American Indian?
So the Yangs were a stand-in for American Indians?
If you also take into account the way the Native Americans were portrayed in "The Paradise Syndrome", it would seem that the TOS writer(s) operated with the notion that Native Americans are a people who are perpetually primitive.
There does seem to be a racist vibe to the ancient alien stuff.
In "The Paradise Syndrome", it was not ancient aliens but contemporary aliens (Kirk and co.), albeit using ancient alien technology, to save the lives of the blissfully ignorant natives from an incoming asteroid. In "The Omega Glory", again it was aliens who educated the savage nobles, the Yangs, about the true meaning of their holy documents.
In both instances, the clueless natives needed a big helping hand from the metaphoric aliens.
Nothing about Picard season 1 is "dystopian".
No. Not cool. That just sounds like some white supremacist's dream; getting rid of non-Caucasians by segregating them on another planet. That's just like it happened with Tyroc in the 1970s version of the Legion of Superheroes, where the lack of black characters (or even bystanders) in the book in the 1960s/70s was explained away by saying that all the black people settled on a magical, time displaced island and that's why they weren't around in the future.
The ancient astronaut "theory" (aka "wild unfounded speculation") does use a lot of western examples such as Stonehenge, the Irish Book of Invasions, and ancient Greek mythology. Von Daniken wrote an entire book about how Ancient Greece was a hotbed of extraterrestrial activity. And the infamous History Channel TV series has episodes dealing with the Vikings, the Normans, the Celts, the ancient Romans, the Knights Templar, Joan of Arc, the founding fathers of the United States, Leonardo da Vinci's work, and more. Some of it is quite a hoot, especially the repetitive declarations of "You have to ask yourself....," and "You have to wonder if..."
Um, no I don't.
Kor
Um, no I don't.
Kor
And, of course, "Tattoo," in which the Sky Spirits granted their blessings to a Native American group that didn't even have language before their benefactors arrived. Gee thanks, Sky Spirits! We would be nothing without you!
And then when Tyroc showed up, he was a stereotypical Angry Black Man with a 'fro and a vest, whose powers were shouting-based. Way to be, LSH writers, way to be.That's just like it happened with Tyroc in the 1970s version of the Legion of Superheroes, where the lack of black characters (or even bystanders) in the book in the 1960s/70s was explained away by saying that all the black people settled on a magical, time displaced island and that's why they weren't around in the future.
I read that Mike Grell (the artist who designed/co-created Tyroc) made him as silly looking as possible on purpose because he hated the stereotypical "angry black man" characterization/powers and the racism ingrained in his backstory.
It's certainly depressing as hell...
In what way?
The supposedly advanced future of Star Trek still having to deal with the equivalent of Fox News, the Federation becoming xenophobic and isolationist, Data killing himself to feel more human, drug addiction and bitterness at some one's bigger house on post-scarcity Earth, torture/eye gouging/death...
None of that points to dystopia. Humans are always going to be humans. The Federation made one decision based bad information provided by enemy manipulation, which they immediately reversed the moment the truth came out. The Data thing is just nonsense. Despite your over exaggerated description of Raffi's living sitution, in a true dystopia a person like you just described would be living on the streets begging for scraps. Her having a pretty snazzy place to live in front of a historical landmark with no worries about where her next meal is coming from or whether she'll have shelter over her head is far from dystopian. Her living situation in season 1 is entirely her choice, not a situation forced upon her by society. As for what happened to what's his name, Seven's friend, the first season of TNG was far more violent and graphic in the episode Conspiracy, and nobody cried "dystopia". I'm beginning to wonder if some Star Trek fans actually know what that word actually means.
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^ Would you agree that 1984 (the novel) depicts a dystopian society?
Yet, the ' inner party' in that novel didn't exactly suffer from bad living conditions, they lived in nice houses, enjoyed significant comfort and luxury. But those that were not part of the inner party were left to fend for themselves to survive.
It's that feeling /vibe I got from the galaxy (or AQ) at large when watching Picard, with Starfleet/Earth (and perhaps a few other core planets) in the role of the inner party, securing a secluded life for themselves, not caring very much what happened to the rest of the AQ and species or worlds less fortunate.
I never had that feeling in the first season of TNG, or even in the darkest moments of DS9.
That said, I've only have the opportunity to watch it once, and I missed out on two or three episodes.
Yet, the ' inner party' in that novel didn't exactly suffer from bad living conditions, they lived in nice houses, enjoyed significant comfort and luxury. But those that were not part of the inner party were left to fend for themselves to survive.
It's that feeling /vibe I got from the galaxy (or AQ) at large when watching Picard, with Starfleet/Earth (and perhaps a few other core planets) in the role of the inner party, securing a secluded life for themselves, not caring very much what happened to the rest of the AQ and species or worlds less fortunate.
I never had that feeling in the first season of TNG, or even in the darkest moments of DS9.
That said, I've only have the opportunity to watch it once, and I missed out on two or three episodes.
Perhaps it's a commentary on our contemporary post-Brexit world?
The EU and the US becoming more insular and isolationist as the rest of the world goes to sh*t?
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