I think DSC and PIC would've received a better reception had SNW come first...

[Dee1891]

So we all know SNW is much more like traditional Trek, I think if that came first and scratched our itch for more new Trek we would've been more receptive of the different styles of DSC & PIC as we'd have our traditional Trek in the background. What do you guys think?

I doubt the reception to DIS and PIC would have been different. Many sci-fi/fantasy fans have displayed a strong penchant for nostalgia and against anything new - especially in characters, content and style. And I'm not that big of a fan for SNW, because . . . well, I have a deep contempt for anything traditional - especially when it comes to novels, television and movies.

 

[fireproof78]

Many sci-fi/fantasy fans have displayed a strong penchant for nostalgia and against anything new - especially in characters, content and style.

Indeed. And if asked, many will not welcome the new. So, anything new will have a rough time.

I'm glad for SNW. Let's me enjoy DSC in peace.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I think a lot of sci-fi fans value cohesion, which isn't the same thing as disliking the new. Wanting more of the characters they love isn't the same as rejecting new characters. The existence of the word 'nostalgia' doesn't mean that the things they enjoyed in the past can't be equally enjoyable in the present.

I think that the reaction to Strange New Worlds is definitely influenced by people's feelings about Discovery and Picard, just like the reaction to Picard season 2 was influenced by people's feelings about Discovery season 4. I remember a similar sense of relief and optimism from fans, who were eager to talk about how Picard was doing right what Discovery did wrong. Then Picard threw all that good will right in the trash and fans let their disappointment be known.

So Strange New Worlds is benefiting from the frustration of fans, but it's earning the love it continues to get through the strength of its stories and its cast, and I think it would've earned that love whatever the order they aired in. I mean if I had to choose between Picard or Strange New Worlds right now, I'd personally pick Picard in a heartbeat, but even I can admit that Strange New Worlds was clearly a better constructed piece of television this year.

 

[plynch]

Though I dislike DSC, i wanted it to be “newer” and not be connected to Spock, then in S2 the Big E. And I liked the first halves of S1and 2 and the first couple eps of S3. It just always gets to be so CW/Emo, or bad generic scifi.

But don’t sat we didn’t want new. Fuller’s concept sounded great and I remember thinkg if I were the DSC cast I wouldve been pissed at the vote of nonconfidence that was implied by bringing in adult Spock and Pike.

 

[Citiprime]

Most of the continuity problems with Discovery go away if it had been set in the 25th century from the beginning, and I think fans would have been more accepting of the visual style differences. There's no reason to set it in the 23rd century other than to tie Michael to Sarek and Spock.

And opinions vary on whether any of that family backstory really works or fits with the characters, and I always had the suspicion that the Michael-Sarek-Spock foster family aspect might have been a studio note from executives that wanted some hook to established characters.

 

[fireproof78]

Having more about Sarek is still my favorite aspect of Season 1. After the MU stories.

 

[Farscape One]

Truthfully, the only justification for making Michael Spock's adopted sister is the season 1 episode, "Lethe". It actually explains WHY Sarek and Spock have that rift.

 

[F. King Daniel]

They're trying to appeal to ALL tastes, hence the shows all being different. Like it or not, SNW is the "please the oldies" show, which just like The Orville reminds you of the 1990's.

 

[JamesRye]

I quite like Season 1 of DSC, it started to go downhill once the mirror universe stuff came along in my opinion. Season 2 was just mental and made no sense to me. From then on I find it unwatchable. Picard was terrible, but the promise of getting the gang back together means that like a poor sap, I will watch it.

SNW is great. I am lucky that I am able to just separate it in my mind from what has come before. To me, it's just another timeline. If I cared to try to fit it into Prime, it would drive me mad as a hatter.

For me, this predilection with going back and doing prequels smacks of a lack of confidence. It's like; watch this show, look! it's got all the things you love, only 25% different! Spock with silly sideburns!, The Enterprise with a shorter neck! and hey! remember the monster maroons? Well, we've messed with them a bit too! TNG on the other hand is pretty much its own thing, the callbacks are few and far between.

 

[Gary Bitchell]

So we all know SNW is much more like traditional Trek, I think if that came first and scratched our itch for more new Trek we would've been more receptive of the different styles of DSC & PIC as we'd have our traditional Trek in the background. What do you guys think?

I mean, you can keep pretending that the criticism towards DISC legitimate, when 90% of it is people bitching because oh noes, there's Black and queer people in it.

So nah. The same Fandom Menance would have been as insufferable as they always are.

 

[Gary Bitchell]

I was so disappointed by the season three announcement, that I haven’t watched since week five of season two. Why continue to invest myself in those characters when they are just kicking them to the curb?

Yup. I have no desire to watch Season 8 of TNG.

 

[ED-209]

I mean, you can keep pretending that the criticism towards DISC legitimate, when 90% of it is people bitching because oh noes, there's Black and queer people in it.

I don't agree, why don't the same people bitch about Sisko & Janeway if that's the case?

 

[Dukhat]

They're trying to appeal to ALL tastes, hence the shows all being different. Like it or not, SNW is the "please the oldies" show, which just like The Orville reminds you of the 1990's.

SNW is supposed to remind me of the '90's? I thought it was supposed to remind me of the '60's, but with 2020's production values?

I mean, you can keep pretending that the criticism towards DISC legitimate, when 90% of it is people bitching because oh noes, there's Black and queer people in it.

People are bitching because there's black and queer people in it? What people are that? Internet couch potatoes with nothing better to do with their time?

Oh, wait, that's the majority of the TrekBBS. However, I don't recall anyone here bitching about black and queer people. And we're the only people on the internet whose opinions count.

 

[ED-209]

LMAO @Dukhat thats savage

 

[Paul755]

I think given the revised set designs, canon/continuity bending, etc…if SNW had come first they would have eventually, officially pushed it to a 3rd timeline/quantum reality apart from the Prime and Kelvin Timelines.

and I don’t think we would have gotten Discovery, at least not one that looks like it does.

 

[BillJ]

I mean, you can keep pretending that the criticism towards DISC legitimate, when 90% of it is people bitching because oh noes, there's Black and queer people in it.

I dislike Discovery and it having minorities front-and-center has nothing to do with it. I found the show bland and unimaginative. I thought the cast did a bang up job with some pretty poor material, just not enough to keep me interested.

Beckett Mariner of Lower Decks is one of my favorite Trek characters ever.

 

[ED-209]

It’s unfortunately the DSC fan first defence when someone says they don’t like the show.

 

[Dukhat]

I dislike Discovery and it having minorities has nothing to do with it. I found the show bland and unimaginative. I thought the cast did a bang up job with some pretty poor material, just not enough to keep me interested.

Beckett Mariner of Lower Decks is one of my favorite Trek characters ever.

That's funny. I dislike both Michael Burnham and Beckett Mariner, for the exact same reason.

 

[fireproof78]

Truthfully, the only justification for making Michael Spock's adopted sister is the season 1 episode, "Lethe". It actually explains WHY Sarek and Spock have that rift.

And I actually find Sarek's character more sympathetic because of Discovery. From TOS he was not.

They're trying to appeal to ALL tastes, hence the shows all being different. Like it or not, SNW is the "please the oldies" show, which just like The Orville reminds you of the 1990's.

Yeah, it feels very comforting. Which, I guess is what people want nowadays because whenever I comment about it it's apparently a good thing.

Beckett Mariner of Lower Decks is one of my favorite Trek characters ever.

Mariner and Burnham are my favorites, with Pike in SNW a close third, at least for Mount's portrayal of him. Pike has always been my favorite Trek character.

 

[Lord Garth]

I don't agree, why don't the same people bitch about Sisko & Janeway if that's the case?

There's more sexism than racism involved. Janeway got quite a bit of flak in the '90s. I know. I was there. But, to quote Lee Atwater, "You can't say... " Almost no one who's truly sexist will still say out loud, "A woman's place is in the home!" anymore. Sexism didn't go away so much as it evolved. They'll express the sexism through double-standards and harsher criticism instead. Janeway and Burnham have both been received more harshly than Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Archer, or Pike. The Lee Atwater comparison is too harsh in most cases, but it's applicable in a minority of cases.

For the majority of cases: I don't think most people are aware they're being sexist. They're being sexist without realizing it. I don't think most are ill-intentioned. It's just the effect of cultural programming that our society is still overcoming even to this day.