I think DSC and PIC would've received a better reception had SNW come first...
- Thread starter ED-209
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I think I agree with this now that I'm reading it.
I think SNW needed DSC first and how far away it was from how traditional prime Trek looked and told stories for SNW to feel that much "safer" in comparison.
But we'll never really know.
While Star Trek: Picard will always be judged against TNG, no matter when it came out.
No, it'll be judged against everyone's rose-tinted memories of TNG, which are quite different from the show itself.
Nope. It would have been trashed from the word go. The uniforms are wrong, the Enterprise is wrong, etc. Exactly as DSC got, if not much much worse because it's Pike, and the lack of proper uniforms and a too big Enterprise, and many other things.
We wouldn't have had SNW if DIS hadn't come first (it was a spinoff from Season 2). And PIC came about only because Patrick Stewart felt like doing it at the time.
It's a fair point that we wouldn't have SNW without DISCO season 2 airing first. For two reasons.
First, Anson Mount is impressive as Pike. And second, without seeing season long arcs first and realizing that while it can be a good thing it's so easy for them to not stick the landing, you realize how much you miss standalones with background arcs.
I actually feel like we got it in the right order. I missed episodic, and you can't really miss something if it is still there. Having DISCO and PICARD be season arcs made you realize that a balance needed to be struck... like what DS9 did.
Like the Cinderella song, "Don't Know What You Got Til It's Gone".
First, Anson Mount is impressive as Pike. And second, without seeing season long arcs first and realizing that while it can be a good thing it's so easy for them to not stick the landing, you realize how much you miss standalones with background arcs.
I actually feel like we got it in the right order. I missed episodic, and you can't really miss something if it is still there. Having DISCO and PICARD be season arcs made you realize that a balance needed to be struck... like what DS9 did.
Like the Cinderella song, "Don't Know What You Got Til It's Gone".
2nd Generation Trek started with a traditional show (TNG), had spin-offs (DS9/VOY), and went to movies.
3rd Generation Trek started with movies (Kelvin), came back to TV with more spin-offs (DSC/PIC), and then went to a traditional show (SNW).
So, basically, New Trek did everything in reverse order.
3rd Generation Trek started with movies (Kelvin), came back to TV with more spin-offs (DSC/PIC), and then went to a traditional show (SNW).
So, basically, New Trek did everything in reverse order.
Actually, that's... right.
I mean, many fans, including myself, continue rewatching it today...
PIC would have been better received if it had been a better show. Discovery was always going to fight an uphill battle because fans are the way they are, and yet it's survived 4 seasons, I think it's managed very well.
Discovery, IMO, should have launched with CIFK instead of Vulcan Hello, especially with that broadcast introduction which just was confusing what with the long Klingon monologue, the look of the Klingons, not actually seeing the actual Discovery, and of course being shown late due to running after a football game. CIFK sets the pace for the show, gets the tone right, and there's no question this is not going to be a normal Star Trek, if there is such a thing. You don't have to try to get to know a captain that's about to be Klingon food and you can meet the three characters that really made Season 1 work: Tilly, Lorca and Stamets. But for all that is was really good.
Discovery, IMO, should have launched with CIFK instead of Vulcan Hello, especially with that broadcast introduction which just was confusing what with the long Klingon monologue, the look of the Klingons, not actually seeing the actual Discovery, and of course being shown late due to running after a football game. CIFK sets the pace for the show, gets the tone right, and there's no question this is not going to be a normal Star Trek, if there is such a thing. You don't have to try to get to know a captain that's about to be Klingon food and you can meet the three characters that really made Season 1 work: Tilly, Lorca and Stamets. But for all that is was really good.
I think had it been SNW first out of the gate then there would have been griping, but not to the level that DSC or PIC have attracted.
Basically, not speaking for myself as I prefer DSC/PIC, SNW is the show that the majority of fans want. It's a traditional episodic Star trek show onboard the USS Enterprise.
Basically, not speaking for myself as I prefer DSC/PIC, SNW is the show that the majority of fans want. It's a traditional episodic Star trek show onboard the USS Enterprise.
I think it's very likely that had SNW come first, it definitely would not be the SNW we have today. Because timing is everything--having the right cast and the right production crew aligned at the right time--we very likely would have different actors in these roles (no Anson Mount as Pike, for example). And without DIS and PIC with their season-long serialized formats, SNW probably would have one instead, IMO.
Imagine if Bryan Fuller had been the primary creator in the development of SNW as he was in DIS. Given his statements of wanting to "shake things up" and not follow the formula of the captain being the lead character, Number One would possibly be the star of the show and the Enterprise would have squared warp nacelles...
Imagine if Bryan Fuller had been the primary creator in the development of SNW as he was in DIS. Given his statements of wanting to "shake things up" and not follow the formula of the captain being the lead character, Number One would possibly be the star of the show and the Enterprise would have squared warp nacelles...
That doesn't mean nostalgia doesn't coat our experiences. I still watch TOS and it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling and a smile, but that doesn't mean there are not issues. I'm just more willing to accept them.
Much of Trek, including SNW, is banking on warm fuzzies and forgetting some of the downsides to earlier Trek.
For 99% of us, our first exposure to Star Trek was either TOS, TNG, or the Movies. SNW was going to be better-received by design because it's made in the storytelling style that attracted most of us to Star Trek in the first place.
Everything else is a spin-off that takes a different part of Star Trek and focuses on it to the Nth Degree. So if you don't like what it's focusing on, you're not going to like it, no matter how well-done or poorly-done it is. If you're not into it, you're not into it.
From my perspective: They pulled off what they were going for. I don't like SNW as much as TOS but, I do like SNW about as much as TNG Seasons 3-6. So there you go. As long as they keep making more episodes I'm interested in than not interested in, I'll think it's fine.
I didn't ask for SNW, I thought I'd moved passed this type of Trek, but I'm glad we have it.
Everything else is a spin-off that takes a different part of Star Trek and focuses on it to the Nth Degree. So if you don't like what it's focusing on, you're not going to like it, no matter how well-done or poorly-done it is. If you're not into it, you're not into it.
From my perspective: They pulled off what they were going for. I don't like SNW as much as TOS but, I do like SNW about as much as TNG Seasons 3-6. So there you go. As long as they keep making more episodes I'm interested in than not interested in, I'll think it's fine.
I didn't ask for SNW, I thought I'd moved passed this type of Trek, but I'm glad we have it.
Discovery and Picard were an effort to make Trek like television mostly is today: dark, gritty, and serialized. SNW came about when TPTB discovered that there was still a desire for Trek that followed the episodic format of TOS and TNG.
Would things be different if SNW had dropped first? No way to know. But regardless, we can be happy that we have five Treks active at once.
Would things be different if SNW had dropped first? No way to know. But regardless, we can be happy that we have five Treks active at once.
Before SNW, (and perhaps PROD) ALL nu-streaming Trek has only been place-holding in comparison.
I like DISC, PICD LD, and PROD. I look forward to seeing more of all of them, and wonder what else the future may hold.
But SNW is my heart's desire. Had it come first I might have been spoiled, not care for the others as much.
I like DISC, PICD LD, and PROD. I look forward to seeing more of all of them, and wonder what else the future may hold.
But SNW is my heart's desire. Had it come first I might have been spoiled, not care for the others as much.
I think they would have been panned even harder, because SNW is such a better show than both of them. They are, I think, lucky that SNW is the newest of the three.
I've made my opinions clear on Disco in other places, so I'll refrain from 'piling on' even further.
Picard has turned into a major disappointment, especially in S2- so much so that I'm not even all that jazzed about the final season.
SNW is the nu-Trek I was waiting for all these years.
I've made my opinions clear on Disco in other places, so I'll refrain from 'piling on' even further.
Picard has turned into a major disappointment, especially in S2- so much so that I'm not even all that jazzed about the final season.
SNW is the nu-Trek I was waiting for all these years.
I was so disappointed by the season three announcement, that I haven’t watched since week five of season two. Why continue to invest myself in those characters when they are just kicking them to the curb?
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