Spoilers "Superman & Lois" Season 2

[Aragorn]

No episode this week? The show's schedule is so chaotic...

They should've just started airing the season later.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Superman and Lois
Season 2 - Episode 14 - "Worlds War Bizarre"

SM/Clark: I expected the "unprepared for being human/drained" plot would be used to give Clark a taste of how it feels living among the super-powered, but there was a lost opportunity for Clark to bond with his regular son, sharing the perspective of a regular man (and why the super-powered world is no place or fragile humans).

Lois / Sam / Ally: The series feels so small scale and isolated, as most of the reactions to Ally's merger were centered on Smallville and the few extras the showrunners bothered to call. For Ally's crap to be packaged as such a "end-all threat" the lack of a global reaction--from cites swelling with people--just takes the viewer out of the show.

Sam was right--of course--Chrissy had the news sense of a pebble to think shocking the public / aka causing mass panic was a good idea by piling that on to their (assumed) fear from the events unfolding in front of their eyes. The D.O.D. initially issuing a cover story was the right move, and with or without the bitter shit-stirring from political opponent George, Lana's speech did send many of the townsfolk into a panic.

Lana / Kyle / Sarah:
In the previous episode, Lana dropped some wisdom on Jordan:

"If Sarah knows your secret, it puts her whole life in danger"
"Not even Superman can keep everyone safe"
"if you love Sarah and want to protect her, you'll stay away."
"Sarah will never be safe if you're a part of her life"

...and the "writer(s)" sold the idea that her common sense understanding was solid--unshakable...until they fell back into typically weak Berlanti Productions soap opera "writing", now having Lana on her heels with Sarah about a secret she only learned days ago. Lana should remind Sarah that the near-lethal incident at the school is exactly the reason why civilians' lives are in a constant state of danger when they are involved in the conflicts of super-powered beings and their usual kind of enemy.

"Everyone always finds out, eventually" so sayeth Kyle--not strictly talking about the Ally crap, but another way of hammering that idiotic idea that Clark keeping his secret was "wrong". Sigh.

Jordan / Jonathan / Alt-Jonathan / Alt-Lana: Jordan's tireless desperation to spill his guts to Sarah almost sent her to the grave, since Alt-Lana & Alt-Jonathan were looking for him, proving that he is a danger to the one he claims to love. Hell, if not for Natalie's arrival, everyone in the gym were facing the end, and eventually, Alt-Lana would have tracked down her earthly counterpart.

Irons / Natalie: Ehhh...Irons deciding to enter the portal alone was too telegraphed, with his fate conveniently left up in the air for the season finale, but I doubt he's going to be killed off.

NOTES:

The Cushings are--by far--the most interesting characters on a series about...superheroes...

Tal-Bro was noticeably absent from the episode, so one can guess he will "redeem" himself (sure...) by acting as the super back-up Clark needs when things are at their darkest.

Teen Brigade...well, its just two members so far. Still wondering why Irons did not offer to arm Jonathan with the weapons he (Jonathan) used last season? Certainly, if the weapons worked on people enhanced by X-K, it would add a layer of security to Jonathan, since he's a target...

Next week: the season finale.

GRADE: D+.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Supermen and Lois
Season 2 - Episode 14 - "Worlds War Bizarre"
GRADE+.

Seems it must be a fun episode!

 

[thribs]

I have a funny feeling their solution to this will erasing some people’s minds. I don’t see Sarah keeping that knowledge that Jordan has powers. I like that she confirmed that her feelings for him wouldn’t have changed knowing it. Something that always bugged me in Smallville as the reason he never told Lana when it became pretty evident early in to the fans that it wouldn’t have mattered

 

[Anwar]

I have a funny feeling their solution to this will erasing some people’s minds. I don’t see Sarah keeping that knowledge that Jordan has powers. I like that she confirmed that her feelings for him wouldn’t have changed knowing it. Something that always bugged me in Smallville as the reason he never told Lana when it became pretty evident early in to the fans that it wouldn’t have mattered

Because DC stubbornly clings to the outdated idea of Secret Identities.

 

[thribs]

Because DC stubbornly clings to the outdated idea of Secret Identities.

But that what makes them somewhat unique to that of Marvel, where only a few have them there.
I have no problem of them having a secret identity. I just wish they would tell people who are close to them it.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I thought it was pretty good. I really liked the townhall scene. The initial reaction of the crowd made perfect sense. And it was great to see Superman, even without powers, inspire others. The action scenes were fantastic. It really feels like we are building up to something big for the finale.

I kind of chuckled when Clark learns that his cells are damaged but are slowly healing and his powers should come back and Clark asks how long. I suspect something will speed up the healing process and Superman will get his powers back in the finale, just in time, to help save the day.

Blame the TV budget but I agree that it felt "small", no pun intended. This is a global threat. The whole world would be experiencing the same anomalies. So it was kind of weird how they acted like they could just cover it up in Smallville and nobody would find out. Maybe because they are the only ones who know the truth but people all over the world would be seeing the cube sun in the sky and cities all over the world should be panicking about what is happening. Also, this definitely feels like a crisis that would warrant help from Flash and Supergirl. If nothing else, Flash and Supergirl should also be noticing the crisis. It is kind of weird how this show acts like it is in a bubble universe. Not even a mention of Flash or Supergirl.

 

[Christopher]

The town hall scene was weird, since it was supposed to be Superman affirming Lana's leadership, but it played more like it was undermining her -- like she couldn't win the town's support without a man showing up to do it for her. Not to mention having Superman show up just moments after she said Superman wasn't coming, which is not the sort of thing likely to get people to trust her judgment.

The fight choreography in the climactic battle was pretty good. Jordan had a couple of excellent moves -- turning Biz-Jon's head so his cold vision hit Biz-Lana, and that last move where he grabbed the hammer and redirected it.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Because DC stubbornly clings to the outdated idea of Secret Identities.

But that what makes them somewhat unique to that of Marvel, where only a few have them there.
I have no problem of them having a secret identity. I just wish they would tell people who are close to them it.

I think I may have watched a different No Way Home than you guys, since Peter protecting his secret identity was the whole point of the movie. So, it's not a case of Marvel being progressive by ditching them and DC being conservative by clinging to them. They simply pick and choose what characters work better with or without them.

Secret identities are not outdated. They work for some characters, and don't work for others. Batman certainly wouldn't work if everybody knew he was Bruce Wayne. Likewise, Spidey works better with a secret identity.

 

[Christopher]

Secret identities are not outdated. They work for some characters, and don't work for others.

Except that often, the way they're handled for a single character has changed over time. For instance, in the 1990 The Flash TV series, only one regular character knew the Flash's secret identity and there was a running gag about him hiding it from his best friend; whereas in the 2014 The Flash, nearly the entire main cast knew the Flash's identity by the end of the first season, and he's continued being so liberal about his identity that he even voluntarily reveals it to villains to earn their trust. And we've gone from the era when Superman hid his identity from virtually everyone, to the point that he constantly gaslighted Lois to keep her from discovering the truth, to the era where Lois is his wife and confidante and he shares his secret with his family and numerous trusted allies.

I think the idea of a character going it alone and hiding their identity from everyone just isn't as relatable for people in today's socially networked era in which many people live their entire lives online and share practically everything. Also, this is an era when people increasingly take pride in being out and open with their identity as LGBTQ, neurodiverse, etc., so the idea of needing to hide who you are from everyone close to you is less relatable that way too.

Although it's also largely a consequence of how storytelling has changed. In a purely episodic series, you can maintain a constant status quo indefinitely, but today's serialized narratives require revelations and twists and character growth, or at least the illusion of change, so secrets tend to have a much shorter shelf life.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I think I may have watched a different No Way Home than you guys, since Peter protecting his secret identity was the whole point of the movie

That rather large detail is conveniently forgotten all to wish superheroes were like some elementary school club with everyone wearing "Hi! I'm really_____" name-tags. It shows a total misunderstanding of the risk involved with those who consciously throw themselves into (more often than not) dangerous situations of a superhuman nature, and the risks involved in exposing civilians to that life.

So, it's not a case of Marvel being progressive by ditching them and DC being conservative by clinging to them. They simply pick and choose what characters work better with or without them.

Sound.

Secret identities are not outdated. They work for some characters, and don't work for others. Batman certainly wouldn't work if everybody knew he was Bruce Wayne. Likewise, Spidey works better with a secret identity.

Exactly.

 

[Anwar]

I think I may have watched a different No Way Home than you guys, since Peter protecting his secret identity was the whole point of the movie.

Yes, and at one point Dr Strange points out that there were far easier ways of dealing with the fallout of his Secret ID being known other than "Worldwide Mindwipe" and that everything that happened in NWH was a really poor plan of Peters' because he didn't stop to think of how his life could proceed with people simply knowing who he was.

IE, he ended up causing more chaos and harm in trying to regain his secret ID than just accepting it wasn't a secret anymore.

Batman can't work without his ID? It's because he's such an old, conservative, archetypal character whose existence can't advance from the basic premise. As opposed to other characters who CAN move on.

Green Arrow and Flash? There were eras where they went around without Secret IDs and worked until hack writers came along who couldn't handle the idea of a Superhero with a known ID and reset everything

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Yes, and at one point Dr Strange points out that there were far easier ways of dealing with the fallout of his Secret ID being known other than "Worldwide Mindwipe" and that everything that happened in NWH was a really poor plan of Peters' because he didn't stop to think of how his life could proceed with people simply knowing who he was.

IE, he ended up causing more chaos and harm in trying to regain his secret ID than just accepting it wasn't a secret anymore.

First off, Strange abandoned his former life completely, including the woman he loved, so his way clearly comes at a cost.
Secondly, Strange goes on to do his spell without explaining it properly first, so that Peter can have his exclusions of his friends and family of it. Had he done that, something that a former medical professional should actually instinctively do before a major "operation", there would not have been any fallout. But there had to be fallout for the movie to happen, so there.
And finally, that is all in-universe. Consider what we are talking about. Fictional characters existing for entertainment reasons. And Spider-Man has always been the superhero who's private life was as important as his hero work. It's part of his appeal, part of why he is so successful both in comics and other media. There's a reason the MCU totally reversed his identity being revealed, same as why the comics did it when it happened there after Civil War. The character does not really work well narratively if the in-universe public knows his secret identity.

Batman can't work without his ID? It's because he's such an old, conservative, archetypal character whose existence can't advance from the basic premise. As opposed to other characters who CAN move on.

Being an archetype is a bad thing? And old?
Looking at the characters critical and financial success both in comics and other media, it's worked out pretty well for him. Almost half of DC's comic output these days are Batman or related books, and while I may wish for more from the other DC characters, I get why. You may not like the character, but you are in a minority there, as Batman, next to Spider-Man, is the most popular superhero these days. Coincidentely, both characters need a secret identity for their concepts to work narratively.

Green Arrow and Flash? There were eras where they went around without Secret IDs and worked until hack writers came along who couldn't handle the idea of a Superhero with a known ID and reset everything

Ah, back to namecalling. Look, you may consider them hack writers, but if they can't work with the hero's identity being public knowledge, maybe that's because the concept has narrative limits. At least for some characters. Comics are mostly about trends, and if the stories about the hero who used to have a secret identity but doesn't anymore become less popular than they were, yeah, they're gonna go back to basics. Bc that's what superhero comics always do eventually. Same for characters who never had secret identities, like the Fantastic Four. There were times when the team looked completely different, times when Ben Grimm was cured and things like that. But eventually, they always return to the basic premise, because that's the iconic version that's proven to work.

 

[thribs]

I prefer superheroes having secret identities

 

[Kai "the spy"]

I'd say Superman, at least the Kal-El version, also works better with a secret identity, if for no other reason that Clark Kent being such an iconic secret identity, glasses and all.

They've revealed his secret a few years ago in the comics, and the writer, Brian Bendis, clearly had some ideas he wanted to try out about it, but his run was unpopular with a lot of fans (not me, I enjoyed it, knowing that the reveal would eventually be reversed, because that's what comics do), so it was cut short, and the new writers had their own ideas that the secret identity didn't factor in much, namely Kal-El leaving Earth to save Warworld. And, yes, the comic's Jon Kent's Superman tried out a secret identity and ultimately decided against it, but that's okay since he's a different character, and what worked for his father doesn't necessarily work for him.

Same is true for Wally West, by the way. That's the Flash @Anwar was talking about, the one who went for a long time with no secret identity. Because he was a new Flash, as opposed to Barry Allen who never went without a secret identity (the odd story-length fake-out to justify a sensationalistic cover aside).

 

[Christopher]

And Spider-Man has always been the superhero who's private life was as important as his hero work. It's part of his appeal, part of why he is so successful both in comics and other media. There's a reason the MCU totally reversed his identity being revealed, same as why the comics did it when it happened there after Civil War. The character does not really work well narratively if the in-universe public knows his secret identity.

I'm not convinced of that. They got some interesting new stories out of the post-reveal status quo, and I think they reversed it arbitrarily before really giving it a chance to work. I mean, Marvel comics in those days (and probably still today) were so decompressed that you only got two or three distinct storylines per book per year, and Marvel's insistence on doing these big annual worldshaking events meant that the storylines in any given series were constantly being arbitrarily wrenched in new directions before the previous one had really had time to settle in. Those conditions made it impossible to fairly judge whether a given status quo could have been viable or not in the long term.

Certainly letting Aunt May in on the secret, at least, was the best thing that ever happened to her character, and I hated it that they erased her knowledge. You can argue about whether the public should know, but when it comes to the core cast of a series, a character who's out of the loop about the hero's identity is far more limited than one who's in the loop. There's really only one story you can tell about such a character, i.e. the hero trying to hide their secret from them and live a lie. And that's a pretty crappy story to keep telling over and over. As Aunt May proved, once a character is in the loop and can become a real ally and confidante, it opens them up to a far wider range of story possibilities.

Looking at the characters critical and financial success both in comics and other media, it's worked out pretty well for him. Almost half of DC's comic output these days are Batman or related books, and while I may wish for more from the other DC characters, I get why. You may not like the character, but you are in a minority there, as Batman, next to Spider-Man, is the most popular superhero these days. Coincidentely, both characters need a secret identity for their concepts to work narratively.

Just because the character works and has a secret identity, that doesn't prove he works because he has a secret identity. Correlation does not imply causation.

Really, I question whether Batman needs a secret identity at all. As he's usually portrayed today, he's really Batman all the time, and playboy billionaire Bruce Wayne is just a facade. (Which is totally different from Peter and Spider-Man, despite your attempt to equate the two.) So arguably the Bruce identity is surplus to requirements. And if anyone could protect himself and people close to him from retaliation by supervillains, it's a billionaire with effectively limitless resources.

I suppose the main advantage for Batman is that he strikes fear into criminals by being a mysterious, unknown figure, one that they can mythologize and ascribe supernatural powers to. So revealing his identity would take that away. Still, Batman hasn't always been portrayed that way, mainly just in his first few years and from the '70s to the present. In most of the '40s through the '60s, and to some extent in the '70s, Batman was a wholesome authority figure, a deputized lawman, and a public celebrity, basically the way he was portrayed by Adam West. Batman "worked" in that mode for more than three decades. And that proves there's no single, inflexible way for Batman to "work."

...but if they can't work with the hero's identity being public knowledge, maybe that's because the concept has narrative limits. At least for some characters. Comics are mostly about trends, and if the stories about the hero who used to have a secret identity but doesn't anymore become less popular than they were, yeah, they're gonna go back to basics. Bc that's what superhero comics always do eventually. Same for characters who never had secret identities, like the Fantastic Four. There were times when the team looked completely different, times when Ben Grimm was cured and things like that. But eventually, they always return to the basic premise, because that's the iconic version that's proven to work.

But is it really that those ideas can't work, or that creators and audiences are just too conservative to give them a chance? I believe "That idea can't possibly work" is just a handwave for "I lack the imagination or initiative to find a way to make it work." You can't prove a negative. Many things have succeeded despite people insisting they could never work.

Narrative is only as limited as the imagination of its creators. The willingness to push past limits is what distinguishes a great creator from a mediocre one. If most stories stick within those limits, that doesn't mean they're absolute requirements, it just means most things are average rather than exceptional.

 

[Skipper]

I believe that in one, uhm, fifth? one sixth? of the Silver age/Bronze Age Superman's stories there was some Man Of Steel's friend in danger because, well, s/he was friend of him. Lois Lane, Lana Lang, Jimmy Olsen, etc etc.

But he couldn't reveal his secret to them because otherwise their life would be, err, more in danger?!?

Yes, every non-powered JLA coworker knew his secret, but Lois Lane, who demonstrated in her own magazine she was a badass every month, couldn't handle the truth.

Super-logic!

 

[Christopher]

Yes, every non-powered JLA coworker knew his secret, but Lois Lane, who demonstrated in her own magazine she was a badass every month, couldn't handle the truth.

Silver Age Lois was anything but a badass, from what I've seen. Robert Kanigher wrote her as obsessed with love and marriage, battling with romantic rivals for Superman's affections, having whirlwind romances of her own that ended badly or turned out to be tricks by Superman, and being constantly gaslighted in her attempts to prove that Clark was Superman.

Kanigher was also the main writer for Wonder Woman in the Silver Age and wrote her in a similarly sexist way for the better part of two decades. I used to think Kanigher was a total misogynist, given how he wrote Lois and Diana in that era, but then I read his Golden Age Black Canary stories, in which BC was a total badass, an expert fighter who could effortlessly overpower any man and think her way out of any deathtrap, with Larry Lance being totally helpless to save himself without BC's help. (Although she did get knocked out with a blow to the back of the head in almost every issue, so I think resistance to long-term concussive damage must have been her superpower.) So I guess it's more that Kanigher adapted to the climate of the times, and in the Golden Age, that meant heroines could be tough and capable while still being glamorous and sexy, but in the Silver Age, it meant being conservative and traditionalist about gender roles and keeping female characters fixated on romance above all.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

First off, Strange abandoned his former life completely, including the woman he loved, so his way clearly comes at a cost.

True; Strange was not happily skipping around telling the world who he used to be once he became a sorcerer--he gave up his real life, which--to any normal mind--was a terrible fate.

And Spider-Man has always been the superhero who's private life was as important as his hero work. It's part of his appeal, part of why he is so successful both in comics and other media.

That was the every-man appeal of Spider-Man: that he's a normal guy living / struggling with life, yet his other half was the shadow over normalcy--if the dangers of the costumed side ever touched his civilian side, disaster was guaranteed to happen, which played out in a number of classic Amazing Spider-Man stories. He's not a child's action figure who is just in a costume, meant to be tossed around with no person behind the mask who--being human--is apart of the regular world.

There's a reason the MCU totally reversed his identity being revealed, same as why the comics did it when it happened there after Civil War. The character does not really work well narratively if the in-universe public knows his secret identity.

Proven time and again through the character's published life, so if some people still need to mount that repeated, head-into-the-brick-wall argument against a successful theme which has always been relatable to readers/audiences for generations, that's their choice, but the outcome will never see their view supported by history.

Looking at the characters critical and financial success both in comics and other media, it's worked out pretty well for him. Almost half of DC's comic output these days are Batman or related books, and while I may wish for more from the other DC characters, I get why. You may not like the character, but you are in a minority there, as Batman, next to Spider-Man, is the most popular superhero these days. Coincidentely, both characters need a secret identity for their concepts to work narratively.

Quite true. Any bizarre resentment of Batman and secret identities reveals a complete misunderstanding of the basic superhero concept, and why there's no sense in writing stories (born of some level of insecurity) that feature civilians fully exposed to the superhero's dangerous life, which they are not, nor will they ever be prepared to deal with, as chronicled in stories which were written by mature talents. It is quite clear that part of the multi-generation appeal of Batman and Spider-Man stems from the idea of the hero having to balance two sides of his life, and carry the necessary burden of keeping loved ones as far from the costumes side as possible--just as some real world professions naturally require employees not to expose their job to anyone in their private life, for their own safety as well as the security of the job.

Ah, back to namecalling. Look, you may consider them hack writers, but if they can't work with the hero's identity being public knowledge, maybe that's because the concept has narrative limits

Indeed.

.

 

[Anwar]

I believe that in one, uhm, fifth? one sixth? of the Silver age/Bronze Age Superman's stories there was some Man Of Steel's friend in danger because, well, s/he was friend of him. Lois Lane, Lana Lang, Jimmy Olsen, etc etc.

But he couldn't reveal his secret to them because otherwise their life would be, err, more in danger?!?

Yes, every non-powered JLA coworker knew his secret, but Lois Lane, who demonstrated in her own magazine she was a badass every month, couldn't handle the truth.

Super-logic!

Really, there were times it was less about Superman wanting to "protect" Lois and more that he enjoyed playing some sick game with her.

Of course, most of the time in the 60s Lois was written as this obsessed lunatic who was determined at "revealing Superman's secret identity". WHY she wanted to do this to the guy who kept saving her life, I don't know. Apparently it's because she thought if she found out she could blackmail him into marrying her.

True; Strange was not happily skipping around telling the world who he used to be once he became a sorcerer--he gave up his real life, which--to any normal mind--was a terrible fate.

He survived it.

That was the every-man appeal of Spider-Man: that he's a normal guy living / struggling with life, yet his other half was the shadow over normalcy--if the dangers of the costumed side ever touched his civilian side, disaster was guaranteed to happen, which played out in a number of classic Amazing Spider-Man stories.

The way the "disaster" touched his life were less real concerns and more Peter's paranoid delusions, like how if he was found out then Aunt May would end up some crazy homeless lady. There's a reason why Aunt May called Peter out and asked him if he really thought she was so pathetic she couldn't handle knowing Peter was doing what he did. It's because had no choice BUT to realize a lot of his concerns were paranoid delusions all along.

Proven time and again through the character's published life

The alternative was never properly explored. Even that great time when he stopped being a photographer and became a High School Science Teacher, that got undone because some hack couldn't see him in any other kind of job.

Quite true. Any bizarre resentment of Batman and secret identities reveals a complete misunderstanding of the basic superhero concept

Did Samson have to hide his identity? Did Enkidu or Gilgamesh? Did it matter to them? No. And they're "superheroes" who predate Batman by quite a bit.

Writers who can't handle the idea of Superheroes without secret IDs are simply shackled to tradition too much, is all.