SNW truly respects TOS continuity!

[yotsuya]

It seemingly worked. Trek was reinvigorated like never before. That wasn't a sure thing going into this. We're reading the news about Netflix bleeding subscribers and money. But not Paramount Plus (yet). I feel sorry for Henry Cavill having to shoulder the entire weight of Netflix on his shoulders.

CBS/Paramount was smart. They started with Discovery, but had to reset some things after season 1 due to fan reaction (negative reaction). Then they brought in Pike and Number One and a spinoff was born and they approached Stewart about a Picard series and more Trek minded heads developed those into what I consider two very successful series very in line with TOS and TNG in terms of story and feel (though SNW has a very different look). I think the success of these is because they heard the fan reaction and went a different direction. I think Picard and SNW are going to be more successful than Discovery.

Netflix has several things going right now. Stranger Things and Bridgerton are certainly popular. But Henry Cavill has the shoulders to carry that weight. Love his work. Just saw Enola Holmes again and he makes a fantastic young Sherlock.

 

[yotsuya]

I'm not trying to change your view, or anyone else's. I'm pointing out that while CBS does have the right to declare DSC and SNW to be part of the same universe as TOS, that they are not bothering to actually practice what they preach in regards to consistency, continuity, characters, and the overall look and feel of the show they claim to be linked to. I'm not saying that's a bad thing; I'm saying that that kind of thing is simply irrelevant to them.

To me, shows like DSC and SNW feel like reboots rather than prequels. I find that I can enjoy them more when I don't feel the need to link them to some other show. I don't think CBS quite understands that.



I'm not sure that Trek has been as 'reinvigorated' as you seem to think. At least not with this fan. I find that I feel lukewarm about DSC (still haven't gotten around to season 4), annoyance with PIC, indifference about LDS, and mildly interested in PRO. Have yet to watch SNW so I can't speak for that show.

I am so loving you right now. Glad I'm not the only one posting about considering them reboots.

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe All Star Trek can be re converged in an anthology series linked to movies leading up to a *real* prime timeline continuation? All the multiverse crews throughout history working together to solve a problem across universes, time and space which lead to everything being restored to prime timeline in the 25th century after Picard season 3?

I see it more like trying to make a film about an event, like looking at two films about the Battle of Midway? Are the 100% accurate? Hell no! Do people say that one film takes place in an alternate universe? Also, hell no.

Dramatic license.

 

[Tuskin38]

they are not bothering to actually practice what they preach in regards to consistency, continuity, characters

They are, all the time. There's evidence of it in all the shows.

they approached Stewart about a Picard series and more Trek minded heads developed those into what I consider two very successful series very in line with TOS and TNG in terms of story and feel (though SNW has a very different look). I think the success of these is because they heard the fan reaction and went a different direction. I think Picard and SNW are going to be more successful than Discovery.

I'm surprised you like Picard.

 

[Dukhat]

I am so loving you right now. Glad I'm not the only one posting about considering them reboots.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I know what CBS/Paramount says, and I know how I feel about the shows. It's all fiction, so I can choose to believe what I want regardless of what the powers that be say.

They are, all the time. Not sure why you can't see it.

Sorry, but making these little nonsequitor statements doesn't make it true.

 

[yotsuya]

I don't think it is as irrelevant as fans think. We just have a different viewpoint on balancing the requirements of making entertainment (rule number one) and continuing on past shows.

Discovery, as much as I can reconcile it, is definitely different. SNW just looks like a different interpretation that matches up with "our future" like TOS did in the 60s. Which is why it works for me.

The look and feel is not as important as characters and themes.

In some ways you are right. Star Trek at its best is about people. But it is also a series that has relied heavily on technology. A great many things were born from what we see in Star Trek. Things people today take for granted. Today TOS does not seem ground breaking at all in terms of tech. When it aired, even into the 80's, it was. It was woke, it was advanced, but we have caught up to most of it and there are new challenges that new Trek series can tackle. What I don't like is that they chose to insert Discovery in an era that we already had seen. Now, we have gotten SNW from this, so I have to forgive them for that. But they could have set Discovery 10 years earlier (though that would have felt like they were copying Axenar) or in the TUC to TNG dead zone, or post Voyager and told the same story. My objection is the deliberate use of things familiar to create something totally new. After season 1 they pulled back on that and have doubled down on some changes (the visuals) but backed off on others (the bald Klingons). So I think that SNW is far more in line with the older series, even if it doesn't look it. It definitely has found the right characters and themes to feel like Star Trek - good Star Trek.

 

[Dukhat]

But they could have set Discovery...in the TUC to TNG dead zone...

That would have been my preferred choice. Setting DSC after the year 2300 (and making minor changes like Burnham being Spock's adopted daughter rather than Sarek's) would have worked far better in my opinion.

 

[fireproof78]

In some ways you are right. Star Trek at its best is about people. But it is also a series that has relied heavily on technology. A great many things were born from what we see in Star Trek. Things people today take for granted. Today TOS does not seem ground breaking at all in terms of tech. When it aired, even into the 80's, it was. It was woke, it was advanced, but we have caught up to most of it and there are new challenges that new Trek series can tackle. What I don't like is that they chose to insert Discovery in an era that we already had seen. Now, we have gotten SNW from this, so I have to forgive them for that. But they could have set Discovery 10 years earlier (though that would have felt like they were copying Axenar) or in the TUC to TNG dead zone, or post Voyager and told the same story. My objection is the deliberate use of things familiar to create something totally new. After season 1 they pulled back on that and have doubled down on some changes (the visuals) but backed off on others (the bald Klingons). So I think that SNW is far more in line with the older series, even if it doesn't look it. It definitely has found the right characters and themes to feel like Star Trek - good Star Trek.

I'll leave the good Star Trek line aside. A story is either good, or not.

Beyond that, Discovery suffered unfortunately due to the overreliance on technological interpretation. They looked from TOS to TMP to TNG which shows a dramatic leap in technology from one to the next to the next. It was an effort to update based upon current knowledge and saw that as an inspiration, while also recognizing that the TOS era is by and far the largest known, most marketable, and most accessible to the wider audience, not just Trek fans, which things like Axanar or Continues attempts to satiate.

What I don't like is the idea that the human future is static. Unlike other fans who post here, I do not treat Star Trek as a period piece with specific rules or styles or tech. So, while Discovery was stuck, Strange New Worlds does what I think is the most practical solution to appealing outside the very small fan base that needs that visual continuity for it to all fit together like the world's worst jigsaw puzzle. It updates the technology in terms of capability, but gives a similar vibe. The design language is deliberate evocative of TOS, rather than deliberately new, like Discovery.

Both are valid approaches, but I would say that the SNW will win out because ultimate fans want comfort and consistency, not characters and challenge.

 

[yotsuya]

They are, all the time. There's evidence of it in all the shows.

I am not convinced of that. They are throwing easter eggs in, but consistency?

I'm surprised you like Picard.

Why? It follows TNG, DS9, and Voyager. They have pushed into the future (the real one, not the All Good Things one). They have exited the Federation and most of the series takes place in other territories. Picard started swearing in TNG season 1 (Merd can be translated as s**t or f**k). All the old characters feel the same, but older. The new characters feel like they fit. The story called back to TNG a lot. It felt like an organic continuation of TNG. What isn't to love. Well, that Discovery Enterprise, but I can forgive that one shot. It has the true TNG Ent D and a bunch of new Ships. Even a past Stargazer of the TOS variety and the real TNG Stargazer. I don't understand the complaints about it. It feels like the creators watched TNG and got it and found a way to continue the story in a meaningful way.

 

[Yistaan]

That would have been my preferred choice. Setting DSC after the year 2300 (and making minor changes like Burnham being Spock's adopted daughter rather than Sarek's) would have worked far better in my opinion.

Who would the Klingon war be with though? The Cardassians?

 

[fireproof78]

Who would the Klingon war be with though? The Cardassians?

There was still tension with the Klingons, as well as with the Romulans and the Cardassians. All are viable candidates. The Gorn too.

 

[Dukhat]

Who would the Klingon war be with though? The Cardassians?

The Klingon war would be with the Federation, just like it was in DSC season 1. T'kuvma would have killed Azetbur and reclaimed the Empire for himself.

 

[fireproof78]

The Klingon war would be with the Federation, just like it was in DSC season 1. T'kuvma would have killed Azetbur and reclaimed the Empire for himself.

Well, we don't always agree but I do like this idea.

But, that's mostly because I like the Discovery Klingons and having more of them makes me smile.

 

[Yistaan]

The Klingon war would be with the Federation, just like it was in DSC season 1. T'kuvma would have killed Azetbur and reclaimed the Empire for himself.

I know Yesterday's Enterprise put a dent in the Khitomer accords but this is another level entirely. It wouldn't work and we'd have even more complaints than we have on that war as it is.

 

[yotsuya]

What I don't like is the idea that the human future is static. Unlike other fans who post here, I do not treat Star Trek as a period piece with specific rules or styles or tech. So, while Discovery was stuck, Strange New Worlds does what I think is the most practical solution to appealing outside the very small fan base that needs that visual continuity for it to all fit together like the world's worst jigsaw puzzle. It updates the technology in terms of capability, but gives a similar vibe. The design language is deliberate evocative of TOS, rather than deliberately new, like Discovery.

Even your word choice better fits with a reboot. "deliberate evocative of TOS" "simiar vibe". But you are very correct. SNW has done exactly the right thing to bring Star Trek to today. I think it is the prefect series for right now. I think it is one of the best series right now. I'm looking forward to binging the entire season after it is all out. One viewing isn't enough. That is only true of great shows and I think this is one. I just prefer to think of it as a reboot for the modern era.

 

[Dukhat]

Well, we don't always agree but I do like this idea.

But, that's mostly because I like the Discovery Klingons and having more of them makes me smile.

My scenario:

Post-TUC: T'Kuvma and his followers don't like the idea that the Klingon Empire has asked the Federation for assistance. They see it as weakness. So he kills the elderly Azetbur and launches an attack on the Federation, which only ends when the Enterprise-C is destroyed.

I know Yesterday's Enterprise put a dent in the Khitomer accords but this is another level entirely. It wouldn't work and we'd have even more complaints than we have on that war as it is.

I'm not sure why you would think this. What's the difference between the Klingon war we got in DSC season 1 and my scenario?

 

[fireproof78]

Even your word choice better fits with a reboot. "deliberate evocative of TOS" "simiar vibe". But you are very correct. SNW has done exactly the right thing to bring Star Trek to today. I think it is the prefect series for right now. I think it is one of the best series right now. I'm looking forward to binging the entire season after it is all out. One viewing isn't enough. That is only true of great shows and I think this is one. I just prefer to think of it as a reboot for the modern era.

And, I'm at the point of what difference does a reboot make if you are enjoying it? TOS was the future of the 60s. SNW the future of 2020s. Same characters, same people, same events are important.

Maybe that's a distinction without a difference. That's just me though.

I know Yesterday's Enterprise put a dent in the Khitomer accords but this is another level entirely. It wouldn't work and we'd have even more complaints than we have on that war as it is.

Why? What is there to prevent it?

 

[Yistaan]

My scenario:

Post-TUC: T'Kuvma and his followers don't like the idea that the Klingon Empire has asked the Federation for assistance. They see it as weakness. So he kills the elderly Azetbur and launches an attack on the Federation, which only ends when the Enterprise-C is destroyed.



I'm not sure why you would think this.

I suppose instead of killing Michelle Yeoh's Georgiou in the premiere for shock value they'd just bring in Koenig and Takei as Chekov and Sulu and have T'Kuvma kill them (and Uhura if Nichols' health was up to it at the time). I don't know if that would drum up even more excitement for the show or cause a Trekkie riot.

 

[Dukhat]

I'm not sure why it would be necessary to kill Uhura or Chekov. Georgiou worked just fine.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

And, I'm at the point of what difference does a reboot make if you are enjoying it? TOS was the future of the 60s. SNW the future of 2020s. Same characters, same people, same events are important.

Maybe that's a distinction without a difference. That's just me though.

If that's how your mind works, then you're lucky. Personally I've been really struggling to get into Strange New Worlds, to the point where I stopped watching a few episodes ago to give it a break, and when I try to figure out what's bothering me so much all I can come up with is that it feels really wrong. I like the Kelvin movies, I liked Discovery season 1, but SNW is just a step too far for me perhaps.

I'll come back to it later.