Why was Indiana Jones upset at the end of Raiders?

[suarezguy]

At the government for apparently misplacing and/or hiding away the Ark?

Did he think it should try to be used as energy or weapon against the Nazis or did he just want it to be displayed in a museum, if so why did he feel so strongly that way? The film itself I think seemed to argue more against his position, argue that the Ark ending up still lost, unused, unrecognized was ironic but appropriate.

 

[Samurai8472]

I think it was pretty clear. The Army wanted to locked it up and put it away. Indy and Brody wanted to study it.

Brody: The Ark is a source of unspeakable power and it has to be researched!

 

[Non Sync]

Indy was upset because his actions had no impact on all the events that transpired.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[fireproof78]

At the government for apparently misplacing and/or hiding away the Ark?

Did he think it should try to be used as energy or weapon against the Nazis or did he just want it to be displayed in a museum, if so why did he feel so strongly that way? The film itself I think seemed to argue more against his position, argue that the Ark ending up still lost, unused, unrecognized was ironic but appropriate.

Um, he's an archeologist. I believe he wants research and studies done to determine its historical and potentially future significance.

Why wouldn't he be upset?

 

[Turtletrekker]

It belongs in a museum.

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

It belongs in a museum.

Mmm, yeah, but does it though? Seems like a blatant invitation to a religious world war. The United States is in possession of an actual, authentic artifact of God himself. I can't see that ending well.

 

[Tosk]

Indy was upset because his actions had no impact on all the events that transpired.

She's wrong of course, but I can't stay mad at Blossom.

 

[Redfern]

She's wrong of course...

I never considered her assessment before, but on the surface, it seems she has a point. Care to counterpoint her opinion? (I ask such earnestly, not to simply nay say you or put you on the spot.)

 

[Nightowl1701]

Indy was upset because his actions had no impact on all the events that transpired.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Not true at all. Without Indy, it would’ve taken Belloq & the Nazis months more to find the Ark, if they ever did. Or, if they had and what happened at the island still happened, another Nazi team would’ve come and scooped it up before the US did. As it was, now the Ark was safely in the hands of the USA on the eve of World War II. “The army that carries the Ark before it is invincible.“

 

[Tosk]

I never considered her assessment before, but on the surface, it seems she has a point. Care to counterpoint her opinion? (I ask such earnestly, not to simply nay say you or put you on the spot.)

She says, "Indiana Jones plays no role in the outcome of the story. If he weren't in the film it would turn out exactly the same."
Which is just silly. It'd be one thing if she said "things would basically be the same if he weren't there" but to say that they'd be exactly the same is obviously a step too far. You can't remove him and have everyone who interacted with him do the same things.

As for the general notion of "does Indy significantly alter the plot of the film" I'd still say he does. They follow him to Marion, just for starters. Without the pendant, they'd be shit out of luck. And if they did somehow find the ark (or found Marion themselves), the ending would be very different. They originally were to fly the ark to Germany. It's only after Indy blows up their ride that they stick it on a truck, and then more adventure ensues. They wouldn't have the ark anywhere near a sub if it weren't for them having to track down the Bantu Wind. The film certainly wouldn't end with the ark in a US warehouse without Indy's actions.

Beyond all that, I disagree with her notion that a character who does not significantly alter the plot of the film as a "glaring story problem".

 

[FPAlpha]

Mmm, yeah, but does it though? Seems like a blatant invitation to a religious world war. The United States is in possession of an actual, authentic artifact of God himself. I can't see that ending well.

I don't believe an adventure movie concerns itself too deeply with such thoughts. The US Army decided to "lose" it in a gigantic warehouse because it is too powerful, even more powerful than the nuclear bomb and if they were ever to lose it and it fell into enemy hands they'd be defeated. Plain and simple.

not true at all. Without Indy, it would’ve taken Belloq & the Nazis months more to find the Ark, if they ever did. Or, if they had and what happened at the island still happened, another Nazi team would’ve come and scooped it up before the US did. As it was, now the Ark was safely in the hands of the USA on the eve of World War II. “ The army that carries the Ark before it is invincible.“

Just because it's a nerd discussion board - Belloq finding it later still means he would have found it, if necessary they would have dug out the entirety of the desert ( and it wasn't that far way from their dig site). Also that other Nazi team that may have come might have opened it to see what's in it ( natural human curiosity) and suffer the same fate. We can argue this endlessly if Indy is responsible for it falling into the right hands or not - fact is it was an amusing storyline in a comedy show poking fun at us nerds and i enjoyed it for what it was.

 

[Redfern]

...Reasonable rebuttal...

Good points! Plus, there was a chance if it had been opened in Berlin, Hitler and his top officers would have been present and they would have been "smited" ("smitten"?!) before they invaded Poland (hopefully) negated WWII all together!

Argh! Indy! Why did you have to get involved?!

 

[DonIago]

Good points! Plus, there was a chance if it had been opened in Berlin, Hitler and his top officers would have been present and they would have been "smited" ("smitten"?!) before they invaded Poland (hopefully) negated WWII all together!

Argh! Indy! Why did you have to get involved?!

Indiana Jones singlehandedly extended the war. The man was a menace!

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I think it was pretty clear. The Army wanted to locked it up and put it away. Indy and Brody wanted to study it.

Brody: The Ark is a source of unspeakable power and it has to be researched!

Exactly--that was the reason for Jones being so upset. He did not think the Ark belonged in a museum, or to be used in the same manner Belloq tried to.

Mmm, yeah, but does it though? Seems like a blatant invitation to a religious world war. The United States is in possession of an actual, authentic artifact of God himself. I can't see that ending well.

...and it would not...if any other powers were aware that the U.S. took possession of the Ark. Of course, the leaders of some countries might dismiss the very idea of the Ark (and all it means), so they might not see it as anything other than some sort of relic.

 

[Christopher]

Mmm, yeah, but does it though? Seems like a blatant invitation to a religious world war. The United States is in possession of an actual, authentic artifact of God himself. I can't see that ending well.

Ummm... If you accept the premise that God created the universe, wouldn't that mean everything is an actual artifact of God?

But anyway, that's the whole point of Indy's objection. Museums are scholarly institutions. In principle, they have no political affiliation but exist to benefit the world. If it's locked away in a US government warehouse, then it's in possession of the US government. If it's in a museum, available for scholars from all over the world to come and study out in the open, then it's not being hoarded by any one nation. (At least, by the standards people like Indy would have held in the 1930s, leaving aside post-colonial views about returning artifacts to their nations of origin.)

Besides, how many people actually know it has supernatural power? Everyone who witnessed it, other than Indy and Marion, got melted. As far as the world knows, it's just an ancient artifact.

 

[DonIago]

^Given how little anyone knows about how it worked (indeed, we saw it do things without any 'user intervention' on at least one occasion), I wonder what the odds are that even cursory scientific analysis might have accidentally triggered it.

 

[Christopher]

^Given how little anyone knows about how it worked (indeed, we saw it do things without any 'user intervention' on at least one occasion), I wonder what the odds are that even cursory scientific analysis might have accidentally triggered it.

If you mean the part where it burned the Nazi logo on its crate, I think that was meant to imply that it targets evil and/or enemies of the Jews, not that it's some kind of uncontrollable energy reactor or something. I mean, the Indiana Jones universe isn't one where seemingly mystical things can be explained by science or aliens or something, but one where supernatural phenomena really do exist and work as advertised. So I would presume that the power that smites enemies is sent by God with the Ark merely serving as a relay, a symbol of the Covenant. Physically, the Ark is just a gilded wooden box holding crumbled stone tablets. As long as the scholars treat it with proper respect, and as long as they aren't Nazis or other anti-Semites, they're probably not going to make God angry enough to make with the smiting.

 

[Nightowl1701]

Also that other Nazi team that may have come might have opened it to see what's in it ( natural human curiosity) and suffer the same fate.

The only reason the Nazis consented to that “Jewish ritual” was because Belloq insisted. The second team would show up, see plenty of evidence that something bad happened to the first team, and be like “Nein, I am no dummkopf. No chances to be taken. Crate it up, and the next time it is opened the high command are to be at a safe distance.”

 

[DonIago]

^^Instinctually I agree with you (though I'm also Jewish, so may be a bit biased, heh), but there likely is an argument that on a practical level the Ark is too dangerous to be messing around with.

OTOH, now I'm imagining American scientists dropping a Nazi into the room with the Ark in it just to see what will happen next...

 

[Christopher]

OTOH, now I'm imagining American scientists dropping a Nazi into the room with the Ark in it just to see what will happen next...

But the point is that that's more likely to happen if the Ark is a government secret than if it's in a museum where it's being studied publicly. That's why Indy's upset about the government taking control of it -- because he doesn't trust politicians and military men to control it, and would prefer it to be in the hands of the academic community. Sure, it ends up just being shoved in the back of a huge warehouse and buried under red tape and institutional inertia, but Indy doesn't know that, because he hasn't read the script.