Spoilers Strange New Worlds 1x02 - "Children of The Comet"

[jackoverfull]

The music is mathematical. The actors were just using terms that western audiences would be familiar with. Spock himself states that it's the mathematical properties of music that make it pleasing to our ears, and that's coming from a Vulcan.

unfortunately this is not correct. What Spock said about harmonics *is* correct, but what they did in the episode was done within the parameters of the tempered system, which is a system that has developed in Europe in relatively recent times, is still not the only one used today, and is only one of a virtually infinite number of possible systems. It sounds pleasing to us because we are used to it, but it wouldn’t to say ancient Greeks or modern people that don’t know it (at this point basically people living in lost tribes or something like that, I guess).

 

[Amaris]

That's actually false. If a shockwave reaches your ears you will definitely hear it. Ears don't require air. They just require some sort of medium to hit the drum.

Like a sound wave, or Shirley MacLaine.

 

[fireproof78]

Yep.
There is no sound vibrations in space so a ship getting destroyed wouldn't be heard. The genre is called science fiction for a reason so best not to dwell on such things.

I always get a sensible chuckle when people say they were inspired to study space because of Star Trek. I liked space before that but Trek certainly added more until studied and discovered space is quite horrifying and I was less invested in the science part of the fiction.

 

[Amaris]

unfortunately this is not correct. What Spock said about harmonics *is* correct, but what they did in the episode was done within the parameters of the tempered system, which is a system that has developed in Europe in relatively recent times, is still not the only one used today, and is only one of a virtually infinite number of possible systems. It sounds pleasing to us because we are used to it, but it wouldn’t to say ancient Greeks or modern people that don’t know it (at this point basically people living in lost tribes or something like that, I guess).

Nope.

Let's move on.

I always get a sensible chuckle when people say they were inspired to study space because of Star Trek. I liked space before that but Trek certainly added more until studied and discovered space is quite horrifying and I was less invested in the science part of the fiction.

Bones was 100% correct: Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence.

 

[Noname Given]

That's actually false. If a shockwave reaches your ears you will definitely hear it. Ears don't require air. They just require some sort of medium to hit the drum.

In a near absolute vacuum there will be no 'shockwave'. That said, you might still be hit and killed by debris propelled away from the center of the explosion. You won't hear it but you sure as hell will feel it.

 

[fireproof78]

Bones was 100% correct: Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence.

Yeah. That was quite the discouraging revelation.

 

[Belz...]

unfortunately this is not correct. What Spock said about harmonics *is* correct, but what they did in the episode was done within the parameters of the tempered system, which is a system that has developed in Europe in relatively recent times, is still not the only one used today, and is only one of a virtually infinite number of possible systems. It sounds pleasing to us because we are used to it, but it wouldn’t to say ancient Greeks or modern people that don’t know it (at this point basically people living in lost tribes or something like that, I guess).

Yeah. For instance, Ancient Roman music really sucked.

In anear absolute vacuum there will be no 'shockwave'.

Tell that to planets in the path of a supernovae.
It's all a matter of how much stuff is being expelled. Vaccum isn't what you think it is.

 

[Belz...]

Eyeballing the "comet" (whatever one chooses to call that icy body) from the simulation early in the episode I'd venture a guess, assuming that the planet is about Earth-size, that the impactor is about a thousand km across. The shot of the Enterprise skimming its surface sure seems to show that it's huge, and it could have quite a thick ice cover. So whatever we choose to call something like that, it might be able to deposit a sizeable amount of water. Whether that's enough to make a difference depends on a number of variables. After all no one is saying that it needs to create a new ocean or something.

 

[Mr Awe]

How does yours work, exactly? You still need to throw a whole bunch of water down there. My solution (making the [possibly artificial] comet big enough to be called a dwarf planet) works 'naturally'.


Notice that smiley thingy I put after that sentence? What does that tell you?


Hence my suggestion.

Wow, you're pretty fixated on this! Personally, I'm just enjoying the show. You should try to do the same without feeling the need to make some sort of weird point about . . . I don't even know what. My reason isn't good enough for you or something? I don't really even know, but it's weird how you're stuck on it!

BTW, a comet is not a dwarf planet, but thanks for playing!

 

[fireproof78]

The comets play the planets in the Solar Series.

 

[Belz...]

Wow, you're pretty fixated on this!

This is the exact same personal comment you made in the other thread. Why are you doing that? I'm not "fixated". I like to explore topics and points fully.

Personally, I'm just enjoying the show. You should try to do the same without feeling the need to make some sort of weird point about . . . I don't even know what.

I'm just trying to understand what your solution is, how it works and how it solves the issue you raised. Don't know why it riles you up like that.

BTW, a comet is not a dwarf planet

I never said it was. And in fact, maybe in the 23rd century they don't have the same definition of "comet". Hey, there's a third solution!

 

[Kraig]

Given that the 1701 went from 203 crewmembers during the Pike era to 430 during Kirk's, maybe that can be used to explain the ridiculous space allocation for the captain's cabin versus Kirk's quarters in TOS.

In the meantime, the rest of the crew is wondering why the captain's cabin is bigger than the ship's entire recreation deck...

That is what I have seen first hand in the service.

I served on the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN-68). I've also seen both cabins the captain had on the ship. One cabin was right off the bridge (like Picard's ready room in TNG) that the C.O. used when we were deployed and at sea. His in-port overseas cabin (for use when we were in foreign ports) was just below the flight deck, close to the ladder to the bridge and was the size of an enlisted E1-E6 berthing compartment for 180 men. He also had his own 40 foot double cabin cruiser (the Captain's Gig) with a crew of three.

What I see on SNW matches what I've actually experienced, but I was an EM1 living with the 180. I'm just surprised that Kirk didn't have the same space as Pike. If living space became a premium when the crew size increased, usually the lower ranks would have to "suck-it-up" and bunk together, and let the C.O. keep his existing space.

 

[UssGlenn]

I could have done without the musical part, both because it was very minor but especially as it’s nonsensical, as it’s based on modern western music and not “universal” at all (those aliens invented the tempered system on their own? Really?).

The music is mathematical. The actors were just using terms that western audiences would be familiar with. Spock himself states that it's the mathematical properties of music that make it pleasing to our ears

unfortunately this is not correct. What Spock said about harmonics *is* correct, but what they did in the episode was done within the parameters of the tempered system, which is a system that has developed in Europe in relatively recent times, is still not the only one used today, and is only one of a virtually infinite number of possible systems. It sounds pleasing to us because we are used to it, but it wouldn’t to say ancient Greeks or modern people that don’t know it (at this point basically people living in lost tribes or something like that, I guess).

Could you explain how was what was done was within the tempered system? I just did a crash course on Wikipedia and "Just Intonation" (which is the pure musical ratio system without tempering), uses the same terminology for note ratios, major Third etc.

 

[Mr Awe]

This is the exact same personal comment you made in the other thread. Why are you doing that?

I'm just trying to understand what your solution is, how it works and how it solves the issue. Don't know why it riles you up like that.

I never said it was. You do understand how categories work, right?

Dude, relax a bit. You seem to get wound up on these comments sometime. I have no idea what other thread you're talking about. Take a deep breath. Different people can find different ways to understand and enjoy an episode.

All I said is that I have an explanation that works for me and that you have an explanation that works for you. That's great! We're both happy . . . or at least I am. Apparently, that doesn't work for you and you feel need the need to jump down my throat about that . . . for some reason that I don't understand. That is weird actually.

My solution is quite simple to understand. It's not a natural comet and it is embedded with advanced alien technology. So, who knows how it affects the planet. Right? Alien technology in science fiction is an amazing thing and I'd guess that for beings so advanced they'd have the tech to affect the climate as shown.

I didn't knock your explanation at all other than that I thought the crew would've called it any icy dwarf planet instead of a comet. I'm happy that you have an idea that works for you.

I'm not sure what you mean by your snarky comment about categories. But a comet is not a dwarf planet and vice versa. An icy dwarf planet can be comprised of comets through accretion in a similar fashion to how rocky planets accrete from rocky objects. That's the leading theory behind the formation of Pluto, but that doesn't make it a comet just like Earth is not an asteroid.

 

[plynch]

Tuning based on Pythagorean intervals sounds decidedly unpleasant to our current ears.

There are many tuning systems just in Western 12-note music. Middle Eastern music has more notes (sort of where the cracks are on the piano) than Western. And East Asian (and I think most Native American) is pentatonic, which sounds like the five black notes pn pianos. And I’ll bet diff cultures within those systems tune em differently.

Heck, just how we pitch things is higher in US symphonic music than 100 years ago. Modern orchestras or pianos would sound overall too sharp and maybe strident to their ears. Sorry to go on. It’s a show primarily for Westerners, eh? Maybe I’m wrong in that count, but, yeah this was an oversimplification for Trek tv. Eps w music usually have that. At least it wasn’t sing songy new agey like every plot-related music on TNG not named Gilbert A. Sullivan.

I still loved it a lot. A little serialization with ep of the week and things to think about. WAY less emo than a certain other nuTrek show, if a bit quippy/lite at times (e.g. mustache remark in midst of briefing room). NO big mystery box with universe-ending consequences that lasts a whole season!!

And things look like they’re from the right era! It’s a visual medium, these things matter.

“Ahhhhh.” Sigh of contentment.

 

[Belz...]

Dude, relax a bit.

You're reading tone into my posts that isn't there. I'm not agitated, or anything like that.

My solution is quite simple to understand. It's not a natural comet and it is embedded with advanced alien technology. So, who knows how it affects the planet. Right?

Sure but it sounds like a bit of a hand-wave to me because it's tantamount to callig it magic. I'm trying to ascertain how the technology would work. Since I have no idea, I'm asking you. Forgive me but it sounds like I'm ignoring our earlier scuffle and trying to have a pleasant conversation on a subtopic, you know, for fun.

I didn't knock your explanation at all other than that I thought the crew would've called it any icy dwarf planet instead of a comet.

Perhaps I just didn't express myself clearly. What I meant is that if it's large enough it could be called a (rogue) dwarf planet instead of a comet, though maybe 23rd century terminology might be different. As I said later it seems quite large to me, perhaps up to 1000km.

 

[Nerys Myk]

How did the universal translator instantly translate the language of the Shepperds when they had never spoken before?1?!

Because that's what it does. Need of the plot.

 

[Mudd]

I forgot to say, I thought Thom Marriott's performance as the Shepherd Captain was excellent for a man rendered only on a viewscreen doing (presumably) motion capture.

As it turns out, that was Marriott in a radio-controlled puppet head - not CG at all.

Which is SO cool.

 

[Amaris]

Because that's what it does. Need of the plot.

Pike even looks at his comm officer when they call themselves the "Shepherds" and says "really?," and the officer responds "that's how the universal translator is processing it," so their language may be similar to one in the database, and the computer's just trying to quickly fit together all the pieces. Regardless, it's clearly not a perfectly functioning piece of technology. I liked that little caveat.

 

[Mr Awe]

You're reading tone into my posts that isn't there. I'm not agitated, or anything like that.

Sure but it sounds like a bit of a hand-wave to me because it's tantamount to callig it magic. I'm trying to ascertain how the technology would work. Since I have no idea, I'm asking you. Forgive me but it sounds like I'm ignoring our earlier scuffle and trying to have a pleasant conversation on a subtopic, you know, for fun.

Perhaps I just didn't express myself clearly. What I meant is that if it's large enough it could be called a (rogue) dwarf planet instead of a comet, though maybe 23rd century terminology might be different. As I said later it seems quite large to me, perhaps up to 1000km.

Alright, perhaps your comments weren't meant to be snarky, like "you understand categories, right?" So, we'll let that go.

Well, there's that expression about advanced technology and magic. I figure if the aliens could predict that the Enterprise would affect the comet and incorporate future events, affecting the climate is small potatoes in comparison. It's not like I bothered to figure out exactly how they would have done it though. I mean, it is science fiction after all.

As I've said from the beginning, it also works that it's an icy rogue planet as you suggest. They didn't call it that, implying it's smaller. It would be like calling an Earth-sized rogue planet an asteroid. But the idea of making it larger works as well as saying it could be the alien tech.

Peace?