What kind of Armaments would be needed to survive the Krell Ambush scenario from ST:Beyond?

[Deks]

If I'm not mistaken, Spock said they weren't equipped for that level of engagement.
This would suggest that Starfleet may have ships that ARE equipped to handle those kinds of situations... the Constitution class just wasn't one of them (possibly a 23rd century technology limitation... if your ship is built for exploration, its tactical ability will be fairly good, but not as good as some more dedicated combat starships SF keeps closer to home).

At any rate I agree Kirk made a tactical error by not retreating immediately... instead he just sat there trying to fight.

What he should have done is turned the ship around, and then fired at the swarm with aft phasers and torpedoes.
In fact, he probably should have detonated the torpedoes in the middle of most dense deposits of the swarm... by creating a photonic shockwave... that would have probably been more effective.

However, Krall already managed to breach SF security... which is how he was able to bypass their shields... and probably why phasers had a minimal effect.

He should have retreated at full impulse or jumped away into high warp (the swarm didn't seem like it had Warp capability).

 

[The Wormhole]

He should have retreated at full impulse or jumped away into high warp (the swarm didn't seem like it had Warp capability).

Then there'd be no movie.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Then there'd be no movie.

There would be a movie, but it wouldn't be one where the USS Enterprise goes down in the opening battle.

It'd be a different movie, but still about the discovery of what the heck is going on down in Altamid.

 

[dupersuper]

Yeah, Krall's swarm basically bypasses the shield somehow (they didn't realize at the time that Krall was Ex-StarFleet & a Turncoat, so it's no surprise that he knew how to counter StarFleet Shielding) & Kamikazed the Main Deflector Dish First which took down Main Shields for good, which made them incredibly vulnerable.

Given he's been out of touch for a century, it'd be a huge surprise to me if that's how they got through.

 

[Deks]

Given he's been out of touch for a century, it'd be a huge surprise to me if that's how they got through.

It was mentioned in the movie by Uhura that Krall managed to hack into SF communications (this could be one system that's more easily accessed than others even by a SF officer who's been out of touch for 100 years). That's how he was able to compromise SF defenses (bypass the shields and probably adjust the swarm to be much more resistant to phasers and possibly torpedoes).

 

[Deks]

There would be a movie, but it wouldn't be one where the USS Enterprise goes down in the opening battle.

It'd be a different movie, but still about the discovery of what the heck is going on down in Altamid.

Yup, and at the very least, it would demonstrate that Kirk wasn't a complete moron either in terms of tactical matters.

 

[dupersuper]

It was mentioned in the movie by Uhura that Krall managed to hack into SF communications (this could be one system that's more easily accessed than others even by a SF officer who's been out of touch for 100 years). That's how he was able to compromise SF defenses (bypass the shields and probably adjust the swarm to be much more resistant to phasers and possibly torpedoes).

How would hacking into communications help him get past shields?

 

[Deks]

How would hacking into communications help him get past shields?

Simple. For UFP, they start from a place of trust, so its possible that communications are a lower priority system which has fewer safeguards (or, the system would be less complex to tap into than something else). Tapping into one system provided people access to other systems in the past.
In this instance, it gave Krall access into SF systems... from there he was probably able to better learn about modern shield configuration and phasers (by likely hacking his way into security). Its also possible that in the 23rd century, alternating frequencies of shields and weapons wasn't a regular thing.
In ST II we saw that if you knew a ship's code, you could drop their shields. Krall hadn't done that, but he probably learned enough about SF defenses to better prepare the swarm.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

How would hacking into communications help him get past shields?

It wouldn't be the first time somebody left a backdoor in the OS.
You only have to look at modern operating systems to see developers leaving backdoors.

And given Krall had 100+ years of free time, I'm sure somebody decompiled the StarFleet OS and figured out a backdoor they can hack via remote login over COMMs.

That could also explain why Shields did Jack Squat and Krall took out the Main Deflector Dish first which permanently disabled Shields before he went after other systems.

Its also possible that in the 23rd century, alternating frequencies of shields and weapons wasn't a regular thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if static Shield Frequencies was common in the 23rd century. That wasn't a thing until the Borg became a threat and they had to dynamically change Frequencies on the fly. That practice became standard in the 24th century post Borg encounter

 

[Vger23]

More importantly...what are the armaments on the Lollipop?

 

[dupersuper]

It wouldn't be the first time somebody left a backdoor in the OS.
You only have to look at modern operating systems to see developers leaving backdoors.

I guess I just expect more from 23rd century tech...

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I guess I just expect more from 23rd century tech...

It only takes one bad actor to leave a back door, and given how many people work on a OS, especially a proprietary OS, don't be surprised if some jerk slips one in.

That's why Linux has a HUGE review board to approve of all Kernal updates.

 

[F. King Daniel]

As others have said, a radio. The idea was Starfleet ships with their phasers and torpedoes couldn't react fast enough to counter the Swarm. Torpedoes were easily avoided and there were enough of them that phasers didn't do enough damage before they were disabled.

The whole point was an enemy where brute force was useless.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

As others have said, a radio. The idea was Starfleet ships with their phasers and torpedoes couldn't react fast enough to counter the Swarm. Torpedoes were easily avoided and there were enough of them that phasers didn't do enough damage before they were disabled.

The whole point was an enemy where brute force was useless.

And the whole point of my scenario was how you would solve the problem when the enemy doesn't have a design flaw.
Brute Force or not, there are ways of dealing with the enemy, especially when you train for a similar scenario now that you know that such scenarios can exist.

 

[publiusr]

In Star Fleet Battles, you have a tactic called a Kaufman Retrograde…Fire as you are backing away…try not to get swarmed…Fire at the outermost edge of the enemy…when the bees try to form a pincer to envelop you—that’s where THEY are thinnest.

Now, I wonder how the Swarm from Voyager or the Suliban would fare for they use similar tactics—-SFB Kzinti ships…are filled with missiles/drones

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

In Star Fleet Battles, you have a tactic called a Kaufman Retrograde…Fire as you are backing away…try not to get swarmed…Fire at the outermost edge of the enemy…when the bees try to form a pincer to envelop you—that’s where THEY are thinnest.

That's what I call a running battle.

Now, I wonder how the Swarm from Voyager or the Suliban would fare for they use similar tactics—-SFB Kzinti ships…are filled with missiles/drones

Smaller Missiles / Drones are technologies that StarFleet could use more of in general.

Gundam has had them in the form of Bits / Fin Funnels for decades and have used various names for them throughout the various series like calling them DRAGOONS or Fangs.

 

[publiusr]

Stargate had the best…each was like an even smaller version of Krall’s craft

https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Drone_weapon

A larger version of this:
https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Yaka_Arrow

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Stargate had the best…each was like an even smaller version of Krall’s craft

https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Drone_weapon

A larger version of this:
https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Yaka_Arrow

Gundam has Drones like that ranging from small penetrative flying daggers to entire Mobile suits.

Gundam 00 alone has a HUGE variety of remote controlled weaponry.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Here's my main general thoughts on Ball Turret Placement.

Spoiler: My General Thoughts on Ball Turret Emplacement setup

In Regard to Ball Turret Emplacements on the Saucer Section of a StarFleet Starship:
- Have Alternating Emplacement layouts on the Dorsal & Ventral sides of the Saucer so that you overlapping cover fire.
3x Emplacements should be the bare minimum for a large StarShip like the TOS Connie.
4x Emplacements would've been what I prefer as a BARE minimum for the TOS Connie
5x Emplacements would've been my minimum recommendation with a nice 72° arc spread
- Triple Ball Turret Cluster per emplacement would've been the BARE minimum recommendation for the 5x Emplacement setup
- Pentuple Ball Turret Cluster per emplacement wold've been my Prefered Minimum recommendation.

Spoiler: Diagram illustrating Different Pentagonal Ball Turret Emplacement on different sides of the Saucer Section

If I wanted to absolutely make sure that you had a high probability of winning this fight.
90x Emplacements with a 4° arc spread and a Dual Ring configuration where they're interleaved by half of the other would allow ultimate coverage.

With 2x 90 Single Ball Turrets on each side of the saucer section, that would mean a total of 180 Turrets per side of the Saucer and 360 Turrets on both the Ventral & Dorsal side of the Saucer. That's just the Saucer side Alone!.

Having a dedicated Warp Core to powering the Ball Turrets would allow continuous beam fire and redundancy along with numerous overlapping beam coverage over a very wide angle.

Having 180 different Solid Beams on each side of the Saucer auto targeting the small numerous enemy vessels, especially with the high amount of energy packed into each turret allows for a effective running battle that can be sustained over the long term.