Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?

[Oddish]

Harry, and the actor who played him, really wanted it, and occasionally brought the issue up, If they'd both shut up, maybe there'd be a promotion in someplace other than an alternate timeline.

I don't know that Garrett made a big deal of it. From what I heard, he suggested it to Berman or Braga, and they shut him down with that boneheaded line: "someone gotta be duh ensign". Ignoring the fact that every other recurring ensign on TOS, TNG, and DS9 was promoted.

It was the letter writing fans and critics who made a big issue of it, I think. I still maintain that the scenes in "Unimatrix Zero", "Nightingale", and "Author, Author" were a middle finger to them. Why else highlight one of the story's worst inconsistencies?

can understand Harry wanting it, but why would the actor playing him have cared? After all, it's not as if a promotion to Lt. would have guaranteed any better stories with the character in a more 'mature' role.

He reportedly jumped at the chance to have his character turn out to be an alien, because it would have taken him in a new direction, like Nog on DS9.

If Nog had been on Voyager, he'd probably have been stuck busing tables and getting locked up for petty theft all seven seasons.

could buy his 'survivor's guilt' of Byrd having gone in his place now, and Lt. Paris not getting that 2nd chance as enough motive. There are people with an almost painfully tight conscience like that, that would also do so without 'having drunk Janeway's koolaid'

They is also possible. But I maintain that Janeway has an almost scary hold on her crew. Look at the end of "The 37's", and "Tuvix".

garret wang wasn’t just an actor, he was also a fan. He cared about the show and wanted the best for it.

As are we. Which is why, two decades after the fact, we're still having this discussion.

 

[suarezguy]

Again I think we make too much of one comment by Data that promotion from ensign is to be expected in a few years (that seems to be the only evidence, aside from real world, that that's the case). And while Kim could have been promoted in the third or fourth season he didn't and then after "The Disease" it makes sense that he wouldn't for a while more.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There was a convention years ago, where the MC accidentally introduced Garret as LT Kim.

Wang said something like "Oh my god, thank you, thank you, finally someone noticed how hard I've been working and all the times I saved the ship... Lieutenant Kim in the Hizzy!!"

 

[Oddish]

Let's use in-Trek examples, most of them in that timeframe.

1. Pavel Chekov. An Ensign in TOS, but has worked his way up to Commander by the third movie.
2. Wesley Crusher. An acting ensign in TNG, but within about 2-1/2 years he has received field promotion to full ensign.
3. Alyssa Ogawa. An ensign who starts on the Enterprise in S4, promoted to lieutenant JG in S7.
4. Ro Laren. Joins the crew at the start of Season 5. By the end of S7, she's been promoted to lieutenant.
5. Nog. Joins the DS9 crew as an ensign around about the end of S5. Promoted to lieutenant JG at the end of S7.
6. Ezri Dax. Has been an ensign for an unspecified period of time. Promoted to lieutenant upon arriving on DS9 in light of being joined, and having three centuries of experience to draw on.
7. Tom Paris. Reduced to ensign in "Thirty Days". Restored to lieutenant about 1-1/2 years later.

It's clear that ensigns play an important role in Trek... but they don't stay ensigns. They move on to bigger and better things.

 

[fireproof78]

It's clear that ensigns play an important role in Trek... but they don't stay ensigns. They move on to bigger and better things.

What if they promoted Kim and field commissioned Seven? Acting ensign, show growth, expand the crew?

 

[Oddish]

Or Neelix. He looked very sharp in operations gold. Just as Seven looked great in blue.

Failing that... just promote Harry (quietly) before Night. Tom gets reduced ten episodes later, and reinstated one season before the end. I don't think 35 ensign-free episodes will be that big an issue.

 

[jackoverfull]

What if they promoted Kim and field commissioned Seven? Acting ensign, show growth, expand the crew?

seven never seemed that interested in joining Starfleet, at least before Picard. The only time she seemed to express any interest in wearing a uniform was in that holodeck episode where she gets involved with holochakotai and she intentionally acts out of character in it.

neelix could have been much more interesting to see, though!

 

[at Quark's]

Let's use in-Trek examples, most of them in that timeframe.

1. Pavel Chekov. An Ensign in TOS, but has worked his way up to Commander by the third movie.
2. Wesley Crusher. An acting ensign in TNG, but within about 2-1/2 years he has received field promotion to full ensign.
3. Alyssa Ogawa. An ensign who starts on the Enterprise in S4, promoted to lieutenant JG in S7.
4. Ro Laren. Joins the crew at the start of Season 5. By the end of S7, she's been promoted to lieutenant.
5. Nog. Joins the DS9 crew as an ensign around about the end of S5. Promoted to lieutenant JG at the end of S7.
6. Ezri Dax. Has been an ensign for an unspecified period of time. Promoted to lieutenant upon arriving on DS9 in light of being joined, and having three centuries of experience to draw on.
7. Tom Paris. Reduced to ensign in "Thirty Days". Restored to lieutenant about 1-1/2 years later.

It's clear that ensigns play an important role in Trek... but they don't stay ensigns. They move on to bigger and better things.

Harry in Janeway's ready room making these points (let's say it's after contact with Starfleet is re-established, so he could have knowledge of 5 and 6 as well).

Janeway: Harry, I stared down death himself back towards hell, and I've not yet lost a single battle of will against the Borg Queen, having won more than once. And you honestly think these arguments will make me reconsider?

 

[Oddish]

Janeway: Harry, I stared down death himself back towards hell, and I've won battles of will with the Borg Queen more than once. And you honestly think these arguments will make me reconsider?

Why should it have been necessary for Harry to make her reconsider anything? The decision to keep him at ensign shouldn't have been made in the first place.

 

[at Quark's]

Well, she decided so anyway (in-universe, that is, of course), didn't she? Unless there were other causes that forced her hand in this matter, but IIRC you've rejected all of those options. So that's the reality he has to deal with, at that point.

 

[Oddish]

Yes. And if his career is wrecked because he was an ensign for seven years and no other commanding officer wants anything to do with him, he has to deal with that as well. The fact that Janeway had the power to make that decision does not mean that the decision was a good one.

 

[at Quark's]

Yes. And if his career is wrecked because he was an ensign for seven years and no other commanding officer wants anything to do with him, he has to deal with that as well. The fact that Janeway had the power to make that decision does not mean that the decision was a good one.

I don't say I think it was a good one.

Just that in-universe, once she had made a decision, it probably would have been very, very, very hard to convince her to reconsider. She had a stubborn and self-righteous streak for sure. One that helped her in many difficult situations, but it also must have impeded her functioning as a good captain to a significant degree as well. Except that it was rarely presented in the show as a character fault.

 

[Oddish]

Harry never actually tried to convince her, though*. The writers knew better than to try something like that, simply because she would have had to defend her decision, and there was no defense for it. The only recourse she would have had is basically "because I'm the captain and I said so", which would have painted her as a petty tyrant.


*He made observations on occasion, but can you really blame him?

 

[at Quark's]

Still, you'd expect Starfleet to be the kind of organisation where you can ask for a 'second opinion' if you feel you've been denied a promotion you should have gotten in the ordinary course of events for no good reason. If you're in the Alpha Quadrant, that is. I wonder if Ensign Kim ever started such a procedure after they returned home.

 

[Summer Solstice]

I wonder who was responsible for deciding who would be promoted in-universe. In TNG, it looked like Riker and Troi were and the captain just signed off on their decisions. If Tuvok and Chakotay decided who would be promoted, perhaps Chakotay didn't really care about promoting anyone and Tuvok just didn't like Harry. Tom and Harry did play practical jokes on Tuvok.

 

[at Quark's]

^I have the feeling it might have been Tuvok actually doing those recommendations. Then again, Voyager (crew) is several sizes smaller than a Galaxy- class (crew)- perhaps it is simply directly the Captain.

 

[Summer Solstice]

^I have the feeling it might have been Tuvok actually doing those recommendations. Then again, Voyager (crew) is several sizes smaller than a Galaxy- class (crew)- perhaps it is simply directly the Captain.

That would explain why Tuvok was the only person (we saw) who got a promotion to a higher rank.

 

[Guy Gardener]

^I have the feeling it might have been Tuvok actually doing those recommendations. Then again, Voyager (crew) is several sizes smaller than a Galaxy- class (crew)- perhaps it is simply directly the Captain.

TNG Lower Decks. Promotions/Evaluations are sorted out quarterly by the First Officer and Ships Councillor. Everyone one gets processed at the same time, or maybe it's staggered, which is why they do evaluations every 3 months.

Tuvok said that he gets daily reports about "stuff" from 17 departments, daily.

So Chakotay (probably) gets 17 reports a day from 17 Departments too, except its about proficiency, efficiency and aptitude, rather than security.

Harry Kim is a Department Head. He writes reports about himself, and then gives them to Chakotay and he does not recommend that he gets a promotion.

The Department heads rank is static. It's beyond anyone who is not an ensign, and a waste of resources for a lieutenant or higher. Only an Ensign can be the head of Operations on a small ship like Voyager. If Harry is promoted he cannot be the head of department for operations.

If Harry is not a Department head, then he doesn't get to go to the mission briefings at the big Table with the Captain and then he is unimportant and out of the loop, even if he's promoted to full lieutenant.

If they were still in the AQ being a Department head wouldn't matter, because it's not like he's lost in space and he has to monitor his unhinged Captain to make sure he doesn't become more lost in space... Or if he was in the AQ Harry could be transferred to a larger ship which required an operations officer that was a Lieutenant or whatever rank Harry happened to hold.

Voyager did not have a Councillor to begin with. The Doctor downloaded some therapy subroutines, but that hardly seems like enough. In the Before and after timeline, Kes was the CMO for at least 5 years, out ranking the EMH, and it's possible Chakotay would have asked for help with the quarterly evaluations, by which point is she going to be happy with the man interfering with her 10 month old daughter?

Kes had the power to demote Harry.

Rank = living space.

If Harry was sharing a closet with two petty officers, after a perfunctory demotion, it's possible that this would have sped up his timeline on proposing to Lynnis... Which may have been Kes' plan all along because human mating rituals are glacial.

ps

Enterprise is a promotion factory.

(I read this in a novel)

Spend a year on the Flag Ship, and if you don't die, you could quickly advance two grades. The person who wrote that may have meant that opportunity for advancement was strong because the Enterprise is alway in the thick of it, but...

Maybe smaller ships don't have quarterly evaluations?

Enterprise could literally be a promotion factory.

The crew either promotes out or washes out, but more than half the crew could be migratory.

 

[Oddish]

If Starfleet is like a normal paramilitary force, promotions are probably approved by the personnel office. They can presumably happen one of three ways:
1. An officer who has distinguished himself is offered a new assignment at a higher rank, elsewhere in Starfleet (Riker is offered the Melbourne in BoBW).
2. The commander of a ship has a vacancy that she chooses to fill within house, by promoting a lower ranked officer already present (seen in "Lower Decks", the TNG episode). Starfleet command might pre-approve the promotion, or it might be done in the field, and Starfleet approves it later.
3. The commander of a ship promotes a person without reassignment, presumably because a person of a higher rank can hold that job (Geordi and Tuvok both making LCDR). Again, it can be pre-approved or field.

Let's examine those individually.

#1. Off the table, for obvious reasons.

#2. In "Author Author", Harry explains to his parents that he's still an ensign because there are very few command positions available. In other words, he cites that there's no position for him to move to. Not true. In Season 1, Pete Durst, an Operations lieutenant, was lost. With his death, Voyager obviously had a space for a new lieutenant in ops. Given that Harry was the department head, he was an ideal choice.

#3. Let's face it, Janeway promoted and demoted several people, reactivated Tom and Chakotay's commissions, and issued field commissions to Ayala, Torres, and Seska. Giving Harry a lieutenant's pip would not have been an issue, especially since he had earned it and was overdue for it.

 

[jackoverfull]

The Department heads rank is static. It's beyond anyone who is not an ensign, and a waste of resources for a lieutenant or higher. Only an Ensign can be the head of Operations on a small ship like Voyager. If Harry is promoted he cannot be the head of department for operations.

If Harry is not a Department head, then he doesn't get to go to the mission briefings at the big Table with the Captain and then he is unimportant and out of the loop, even if he's promoted to full lieutenant.

If they were still in the AQ being a Department head wouldn't matter, because it's not like he's lost in space and he has to monitor his unhinged Captain to make sure he doesn't become more lost in space... Or if he was in the AQ Harry could be transferred to a larger ship which required an operations officer that was a Lieutenant or whatever rank Harry happened to hold

it’s a good theory and there is enough circumstantial evidence to support it. Recently when Boimler is reassigned to the Cerritos he is demoted back to Ensign, as the position is not for a Lt JG.

Kes was the CMO for at least 5 years, out ranking the EMH,

what?! When?!

it's possible Chakotay would have asked for help with the quarterly evaluations, by which point is she going to be happy with the man interfering with her 10 month old daughter?

what are you talking about?

Kes had the power to demote Harry.

no she hadn’t.