Spoilers Is Picard season 2 a failure?

[Mogh]

Is Picard Season 2 a failure? Or: How I am disappointed by Picard Season 2

So, first off, pardon the longish rant, but I wanted to discuss the season overall and see if other people feel the same way I do about Season 2. I read a couple of reviews recently that crystalized some of my opinions about the show that I was really trying to hide from acknowledging.

· Some good points about Picard being more like some subpar “edgy” sci-fi drama than anything Star Trek: https://www.thegamer.com/star-trek-picard-is-garbage/

· Picard’s pacing, among other things, are major issues: https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-picard-season-2-episode-8-review-mercy/

I thought episode 1 was great and what Picard should have been all along. Episode 2 was pretty great, with great performances and a less silly “mirror universe”. So I was really digging this season at the start. Since then, for me, it has devolved into barely watchable, boring, and meandering Discovery-level Trek.

Positive points:

· Jeri Ryan acting more like Seven, and less like the too-human version of her in season 1

· John De Lancie playing up a great, darker version of Q, even though the actual part is small/less than impactful

· Ito Aghayere’s portrayal of young Guinan

· Stewart getting a couple of Picard speeches (even if the justification for them was very slight)

Negative points (just about everything else, where to start?):

· Pointless fetch quests for our crew in the 21st century (Rios, Seven, and Raffi) where they achieve nothing but wasting time (why was the music so dramatic when Seven was driving, when absolutely no one was chasing them?)

· Waffling back and forth about whether Renee is ok or not; once Picard gives her his little speech she is fine, but only really noted in offhand dialog an episode or two later, but then suddenly they worry about it again and desperately need Picard back up and functioning again to address absolutely no problem with Renee

· Meandering storylines in every episode that just go on and on: Jurati/Borg Queen, Rios and the doctor, Soong and his daughter

· Our heroic crew seems very uncaring regarding security of the Borg Queen, the likely greatest threat to the survival of the entire planet:

o just hook her immediately in to the ship; don’t worry about a security field; don’t worry about implementing any security on the computer systems; leave her alone in the ship while you traipse off to the Chateau (for no reason); leave her Borg tentacles and nanoprobes intact and functional; leave her in the care of the not-at-all-unreliable and already compromised Jurati; once she and Jurati combine, don’t pull out all the stops to find her, just send 2 of your crew to kind of look for her 8 hours later and hope they don’t get their butts kicked

· Non-stop plot holes/lack of justification in practically every episode

o Q’s plan for Adam at the party was to alert security, then Adam walks off assuming everything was fine; security does zip; and then Adam repeats his failure with the out-of-the-blue attempted car homicide thing; and why were all 5 of the crew there again? Only Jurati and Picard did anything at all.

o Everything with Picard’s injury; he’s fine until he is not, then the doc just walks out, then non-Laris has magic mind-meld tech, then it’s crucial that the doctor holds the stabilizer instrument over Picard’s head when neither of them knows what they are doing and it requires no medical skill at all; and apparently all along non-Laris is an ancestor of Laris’s (at least there is some explanation)?

o Q, Adam, the Borg Queen; they all seem to go about their plots (whatever they actually turn out to be) in needlessly circuitous ways (almost like they are trying to pad out the running time of a 10-episode serialized show). Why does Q become a fake psychiatrist? Why does he try to get her to quit? Why doesn’t he just report that she is psychologically unfit for service? Why doesn’t he just kill her? Why does he recruit Adam to do nothing at all (other than to get Spiner and Stewart in a scene together)? If he can impersonate a doctor as part of the Europa mission or a FBI agent, why does he need Adam for anything? If Adam has access to advanced cloning technology, and money, and mercenaries, what does he need permission from some stupid medical board for? If he’s willing to do illegal genetics experiments and clone people, run down heroic astronauts or random nonagenarians with his car, and hire mercs to do whatever, what does he care if some board gives the stamp of approval for his work?

World building issues

· No references to the apparently very impactful (given Soong’s storyline) eugenics war storyline (other than a reference, maybe, to some treaty or agreement). I get that the writers seem to not want to touch that rail, but then why have a genetics/eugenics storyline if you are afraid to address it?

· They seem to be going out of their way to make the 2024 setting to be exactly like current reality, so it feels weird that the only differences are elements specifically needed for the plot lines, with no outside impacts or changes.

o ICE is just like in our reality, re: immigration and poor treatment of prisoners/suspects; but no sci-fi trappings like different uniforms, technology, or organizational title

o There are background references to sanctuary districts and 1 reference to homelessness among wealth, but no other impacts

o There are advanced space missions (Europa) and advanced genetics (cloning?) but no impacts on any day-to-day life: no clothing differences, dialog differences, nothing

· It just all feels very small; maybe this is all impacts from covid restrictions, but every scene (minus the party scene which had more people) feels like the scenes were all designed to take place in closets where we don’t have to see any historical, social, or technological differences; where our characters have stilted dialog talking all around the actual topic at hand until they have ultra-direct pointed discussions resulting in insightful and life-changing revelations over the course of 10 minutes. Rios on a whim shows the doc and her kid all the future tech; Picard reveals the entire plot re: being from the future, to some random FBI guy.

o [Noted that Voyager’s visit to the “present” in “Future’s End” was similarly underwhelming with some of the same issues re: eugenics, and sci-fi differences, but it felt like it was trying harder. DS9’s visit to the 21st century in “Past Tense” actually felt like science fiction.]

[And yes, I realize that we can all bend over backward to come up with some tortured justifications to paper over the holes in logic and motivation, but that doesn’t mean the show isn’t bad.]

I guess I have to face it: Picard season 2 is no real improvement over season 1 in any of the ways that really matter. It still has bad pacing. The mystery box approach to the individual plotlines is still boring/unengaging. And in some ways it is worse: the plotting (logic, character intentions and decisions) is even less justified than in season 1, with episodes lurching from point to point with little support other than that is what the episodes call for at any given minute. Raffi is seriously underserved both in storyline and in giving the actress not much real to contribute. And none of our crew members feel like the heroic best-of-the-best Starfleet types that we were led to believe they were back in season 2 episode 1 (after they had supposedly gotten their mojo back as a result of their work/success in season 1).

So, I will still be looking forward to the reunion of the TNG cast in season 3, but I don’t have any real hope for this season to be good and will likely just complete it to see how the plot ends (like I did season 4 of Discovery). Such a let down from the promise the start of this season.


So rant over. Anyone else feeling similar?

Agree with basically all of this, and a few criticisms more.

Picard S1 was problematic but at least had some entertainment value; S2 is just awful. Discovery similarly got worse with time.

Prodigy is the only Star Trek show that's hitting it out of the park for me. I'm hoping against hope that Picard S3 hits it (and Strange New Worlds) but if you can't write a corking season of Star Trek when you have Patrioc Stewart, Jeri Ryan, John De Lancie, appearances by the Borg Queen and Guinan, a mirror universe and guest stars like James Callis - I mean wow, very likely you can take the whole TNG cast and royally screw that up too.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Agree with basically all of this, and a few criticisms more.

Picard S1 was problematic but at least had some entertainment value; S2 is just awful. Discovery similarly got worse with time

Oddly, a lot of people love the new premise of DISCO. I am not one of them because I wanted them to go further into the prequel business and hate that they're never going to return.

 

[fireproof78]

Oddly, a lot of people love the new premise of DISCO. I am not one of them because I wanted them to go further into the prequel business and hate that they're never going to return.

Same.

 

[Mogh]

Oddly, a lot of people love the new premise of DISCO. I am not one of them because I wanted them to go further into the prequel business and hate that they're never going to return.

Fingers crossed that Strange New Worlds finally goes there. Anson Mount was one of the few high spots in DISCO season 2.

 

[timtonruben359]

I don’t mind serialized storytelling at all, if it’s smart and each episode has point. Current Trek, mostly, is doing a poor job with serial storytelling.

I actually prefer serialized television to episodic as I find it a more engaging type of storytelling, but I agree with you that the current incarnations of Trek haven't pulled it off successfully (although I really liked season 2 of Disco and feel that is probably the most successful season of serialized Trek to date). I think there is a valid question to be asked, is Trek conducive to purely serialized format? I think it is but I think the execution of it is challenging to pull off.

I think what has happened with Picard and the latest seasons of Disco is that the writers wanted to balance the main narrative of the season with "B" plots designed to build character. The problem is, as very apparent in this second half of Picard season 2, the writers got lost in those side stories and push the main plot back to the point the pacing becomes glacial. Also the prevalence of "mystery boxes" that don't get solved until the final episode is another issues. After nine episodes of season 2, we still have no idea as to why Q changed the timeline and why it matters. Character motivation is what drives story, and we should've learned this MUCH earlier to give us a sense of the "risk." Why does this matter to Q? What does he have to gain or lose by making these changes etc. Even why it's so important that Renee Picard goes on the Europa Mission was somewhat resolved by episode 8 which again, ridiculously too late to be giving vital information like that.

That being said, I've enjoyed the season despite its very obvious flaws. I think there have been some wonderful character moments. Its clear the season was beset by behind the scenes issues: change in writers, Terry Matalas focusing more on season three after the first few episodes of season two were written, Akiva Goldsmith showrunning Strange New World while showrunning the second half of season 2 of Picard, COVID delays and changes to the story to accommodate health and safety restrictions in place etc.

 

[plynch]

Failure means it failed to do what the producers wanted it to do, which is enhance shareholder value of Paramount/CBS product machine.

I raved about it early on. Don’t feel like cataloging my dislikes that accumulated, the biggest of which are the unnecessary psuedo-Freudian flashbacks never, ever hinted at/discussed w/ JL’s dear friends in Seven years of tv and four flicks.

Failure, prob not, but a disappointment, yes.

Give us a ripping, coherent yarn. The dude’s distant. Fine. He grew out of it a lot through TNG up through going to the last poker game. Fine. This gothic horror mommy BS was almost Trek jumping the shark for me.

ymmv

 

[fireproof78]

Failure, prob not, but a disappointment, yes.

More accurate I think.

Failure is a word oft used in such a way as to loose all meaning.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

I have enjoyed it, but I guess I was hoping for Q to feature more, Tapestry-style. One final test for Jean Luc. I was also hoping Whoopi would have a scene with De Lancie, and that her sensing something isn't right, like in Yesterday's Enterprise, is what gets Picard to go into the past. I was hoping her appearance would be plot-motivated, rather than a catch up between Stewart and Goldberg. That first encounter between Picard and Q was so strong. I think it's lost its way a bit after that. Spiner has been excellent, but some of it has felt a bit contrived. The best stuff in the past, I think, was the stuff with Rios.

 

[Mogh]

Fine. He grew out of it a lot through TNG up through going to the last poker game. Fine. This gothic horror mommy BS was almost Trek jumping the shark for me.

ymmv

Amen. It's almost like they can't accept that a functional person might just be more reserved.

 

[fireproof78]

Amen. It's almost like they can't accept that a functional person might just be more reserved.

Stewart might not. I'm highly reserved in person. I function but I know the source of my reserved nature. Sounds like Stewart wanted Picard to explore that reason.

Now, as a function in a story the success will vary.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Amen. It's almost like they can't accept that a functional person might just be more reserved.

I find this to be extremely dismissive to people who have close relatives suffering from mental illness and suicide like, say, me. Plenty of RL people cope with trauma like spouse abuse, childhood trauma, and suicide--I'm not sure what exactly the "insult" of making Captain Picard into something like this is.

What is wrong with us that you don't want Picard to be one of us?

I speak from experience when I think this was handled very well--though perhaps a bit too glamorous in the way it was finally framed. Suicide is anything but glamorous.

 

[Danja]

I find this to be extremely offputting to people who have close relatives suffering from mental illness and suicide like, say, me. Plenty of RL people cope with trauma like spouse abuse, childhood trauma, and suicide--I'm not sure what exactly the "insult" of making Captain Picard into something like this is.

What is wrong with us that you don't want Picard to be one of us?

For 35 years, Picard has been written as the model human being, the ideal man. A role model others are expected to emulate.

To suddenly load him down with these issues is off-putting to a lot of people.

It's the same reason people complain about the crying on Disco (it's as if Starfleet officers are expected to blithely accept that they're never going to see their families and loved ones ever again).

 

[fireproof78]

Why? Even here people extol the stereotypical stiff upper lip for Picard, championing a stoic attitude. Picard is pretty normal here.

 

[Charles Phipps]

For 35 years, Picard has been written as the model human being, the ideal man. A role model others are expected to emulate

I should point out that for 32 years of that time period, Picard has been written as a man suffering horrific PTSD from being assimilated by the Borg. A man who was utterly crippled by the event that he endured and only managed to cope with that by forcing himself to move on.

This is adding a childhood trauma to the man but the idea that Picard is a character is an ideal and paragon with no tragedy hasn't been true since Best of Both Worlds.

 

[Mogh]

I find this to be extremely dismissive to people who have close relatives suffering from mental illness and suicide like, say, me. Plenty of RL people cope with trauma like spouse abuse, childhood trauma, and suicide--I'm not sure what exactly the "insult" of making Captain Picard into something like this is.

What is wrong with us that you don't want Picard to be one of us?

I speak from experience when I think this was handled very well--though perhaps a bit too glamorous in the way it was finally framed. Suicide is anything but glamorous.

It isn't an insult. It also isn't necessary. It feels like lazy writing to take a character who is more reserved in his way and insist that the only way he could be so is via emotional trauma.

Can't he just be reserved? Particularly as someone in the 24th century with access to a world of understanding better than ours?

 

[Mogh]

I should point out that for 32 years of that time period, Picard has been written as a man suffering horrific PTSD from being assimilated by the Borg. A man who was utterly crippled by the event that he endured and only managed to cope with that by forcing himself to move on.

This is adding a childhood trauma to the man but the idea that Picard is a character is an ideal and paragon with no tragedy hasn't been true since Best of Both Worlds.

True, but at least that was well signposted. And largely assumed to be resolved in First Contact, until yet again he had to be portrayed as a "man in constant agony" rather than a beneficiary of the more enlightened age Roddenberry wrote the 24th century to be (you know, where they're so in-balance that they have a counsellor serving on the bridge).

 

[fireproof78]

True, but at least that was well signposted. And largely assumed to be resolved in First Contact, until yet again he had to be portrayed as a "man in constant agony" rather than a beneficiary of the more enlightened age Roddenberry wrote the 24th century to be (you know, where they're so in-balance that they have a counsellor serving on the bridge).

Resolved is an odd part of mental health. Picard's statement about "every day" in Season 1 to Seven is very appropriate. It's a journey not a destination. And age does different things to people.

 

[Mogh]

Resolved is an odd part of mental health. Picard's statement about "every day" in Season 1 to Seven is very appropriate. It's a journey not a destination. And age does different things to people.

It's an odd part now. For better or worse, in 1987 the writer's bible for TNG created a world in which humans were more evolved: they didn't ordinarily have interpersonal conflict, or suffer everyday disease, or succumb to baser emotions, or suffer mental health issues without resolution.

That's the world the character inhabits, and it seems the modern production team want to cash in on the brand and star value, but rewrite the rules, and it just makes it wildly inconsistent.

Not to mention that people-suffering-trauma is one of the oldest tropes in fiction, and is even more prevalent today. Michael Burnham has trauma. Poke will have trauma. Where's the representation of folk who just fancy keeping themselves to themselves more as a sensibility? Why the need to grant, even 35 years in, ever character a hitherto-unseen trauma, as though the only plausible reason for them not being a raving extrovert would be pain?

 

[Danja]

I should point out that for 32 years of that time period, Picard has been written as a man suffering horrific PTSD from being assimilated by the Borg. A man who was utterly crippled by the event that he endured and only managed to cope with that by forcing himself to move on.

It's very rare that someone completely "moves on".

Trauma has a way of rearing its ugly head just when you least expect it.

 

[shapeshifter]

I should point out that for 32 years of that time period, Picard has been written as a man suffering horrific PTSD from being assimilated by the Borg. A man who was utterly crippled by the event that he endured and only managed to cope with that by forcing himself to move on.

This is adding a childhood trauma to the man but the idea that Picard is a character is an ideal and paragon with no tragedy hasn't been true since Best of Both Worlds.

Exactly. He's been wearing mysterious scars ever since he first told another crewman he was uncomfortable around children. Picard S2 has finally dragged them into the light to be addressed. He was afraid of passing schizophrenia on to his kids.