What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[eschaton]

Neelix was best after Kes was no longer on the series. When they didn't have to play into the romance angle of the character he became a lot more tolerable.

They never really committed to the romance anyway. It's like they planned for it back during writing the series bible, and then realized how creepy it was to have an alien played by a middle aged man dating a character who is canonically only a few years old (and played by someone who is 20). So they basically made them in a "relationship" - but they lived in separate quarters, and Elogium strongly inferred they had never even had sex.

And, as a whole, VOY holds up much better now as fun, interesting comfort food than it did during it's initial run on UPN. I just finished my first full watch of the series (I had only seen about 1/3 of the episodes before) and I enjoyed it a LOT more than how I felt about it back in the late 90's. Even the episodes that were supposed to be "weaker" I found redeeming qualities in.

VOY is a lot easier to tolerate now because it doesn't have the same expectations it had at the time. People kept on hoping it would turn into something else, and were repeatedly let down each week when it...continued to be VOY.

 

[gweeps]

I’m in a jazz/funk trio.

Off topic, but you might enjoy Treme. It's about life after the 2005 hurricane in New Orleans. Great cast, music, stories, etc.

 

[Vger23]

Now here's something a lot of people WON'T agree with in the VOY vs. TNG realm (very much in the interest/spirit of "Controversial"):

I like that VOY didn't do as many preachy, pretentious episodes as TNG did either...and by that I mean episodes that are generally considered very highly by most Trek fans and critics alike.

To me, "Measure of a Man" and "The Drumhead" are really REALLY dull and no fun at all. I like VOY using The Doctor or Seven in a much more fun way to explore "big issues" than suffering through the hum-drum of some overbaked boredem-fest that takes itself way too seriously.

I'd much rather have a silly episode about some spatial anomaly than listen to Picard preach about something "profound" at this point in my life.

 

[Sci]

Honestly, I agree.

And, as a whole, VOY holds up much better now as fun, interesting comfort food than it did during it's initial run on UPN. I just finished my first full watch of the series (I had only seen about 1/3 of the episodes before) and I enjoyed it a LOT more than how I felt about it back in the late 90's. Even the episodes that were supposed to be "weaker" I found redeeming qualities in.

I dunno -- even when watching the better episodes, I still have a lot of the same problems with VOY that I had back in the day. I think the show that it set itself up to be with its premise -- "A single ship with two crews ideologically opposed to each other, lost in the Delta Quadrant on a desperate quest to return home," basically Star Trek meets The Odyssey -- is fundamentally at odds with the show that the creators were writing during most of its run -- a light-hearted action-oriented adventure show where there's no ideological or interpersonal conflict (except maybe with Seven and the Doctor.)

Star Trek: Voyager is fine for what it is, but it had so much more potential than it ever tried to live up to. It's a show that fundamentally does not believe in its own premise.

 

[fireproof78]

I dunno -- even when watching the better episodes, I still have a lot of the same problems with VOY that I had back in the day. I think the show that it set itself up to be with its premise -- "A single ship with two crews ideologically opposed to each other, lost in the Delta Quadrant on a desperate quest to return home," basically Star Trek meets The Odyssey -- is fundamentally at odds with the show that the creators were writing during most of its run -- a light-hearted action-oriented adventure show where there's no ideological or interpersonal conflict (except maybe with Seven and the Doctor.)

Star Trek: Voyager is fine for what it is, but it had so much more potential than it ever tried to live up to. It's a show that fundamentally does not believe in its own premise.

I think, in order to enjoy Voyager I would have to leave the premise behind. It's a basic framing device that doesn't add up much. So, as an occasional adventure it's fine. As something that, as you say, could have been more if it had pursued it's original premise it is disappointing.

 

[gweeps]

Also, holding to the original premise wouldn't have given them seven years, For instance, the condition of the ship couldn't have held up.

Thinking of that, it's a shame we rarely saw any outer space fixing of the ship.

 

[Oddish]

The problem with A Night In Sickbay isn't that it's a particularly bad episode of Trek. The problem is it totally destroys my ability to respect Jonathan Archer.

That is the worst aspect of it... Archer acts like he's about 9.

It's just that other aspects of it are so ridiculous. Catching bats, treadmill pissing contests, Denobulan hygiene, chainsaws, and that dream.

Neelix was best after Kes was no longer on the series. When they didn't have to play into the romance angle of the character he became a lot more tolerable.

The Kes/Neelix pairing was a questionable decision, to be sure. Honestly, even though Kes looked adult, it was hard to get past her chronological age.

And, as a whole, VOY holds up much better now as fun, interesting comfort food than it did during it's initial run on UPN.

Funny, I thought it was sort of the other way. DS9's edginess and serialization, disliked by many in its day, has grown on modern audiences. Contrastingly, Voyager's TNG Lite formula is less popular now than it was then.

 

[Orphalesion]

Also, holding to the original premise wouldn't have given them seven years, For instance, the condition of the ship couldn't have held up.

Thinking of that, it's a shame we rarely saw any outer space fixing of the ship.

I think they could have managed seven years on their original premise. It's just a matter of executing it right. Voyager didn't even try. I mean there's a lot of wiggle room between the magic reset button and shredding the ship down to its skeleton in the first season with all the systems permanently failing and forcing the characters to live on that for the rest of the series. I'm sure regular repairs could have taken place on friendly space stations, for example. Which might have forced Janeway to consent to trade away Federation technology and would have offered interesting dilemmas.

Aside from failing to execute its interesting promise, Voy often isn't terrible. It has it's good episodes (not as many as TNG, and definitely not as many as DS9) and Seven is one of the most interesting characters in 90s Trek. But it could have been more.
And failing their original promise they could have just sent Voyager home sooner and let it be "TNG lite" in the ALpha Quadrant if that's what they wanted.

 

[Vger23]

Funny, I thought it was sort of the other way. DS9's edginess and serialization, disliked by many in its day, has grown on modern audiences. Contrastingly, Voyager's TNG Lite formula is less popular now than it was then.

I like DS9 better than both TNG and VOY, though...so there is that...

 

[Orphalesion]

I like DS9 better than both TNG and VOY, though...so there is that...

I can agree with that. I don't think I liked it as a kid, but now I see it as the best of the 90s Trek shows.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

VOY was largely a return to the episodic format of TNG and TOS (and TAS). Overall, the serialized elements were secondary, if not tertiary. You can watch the vast majority of VOY episodes as stand-alones and miss nothing important.

 

[gweeps]

And failing their original promise they could have just sent Voyager home sooner and let it be "TNG lite" in the ALpha Quadrant if that's what they wanted.

Now that would have been interesting. A season of them readjusting to being home/back in the AQ.

Imagine: 3-4 seasons in Delta, 1 or 2 seasons in Alpha and a couple in Gamma. Then back to the AQ or propel them to the future a la what's been done in Discovery, just not as convoluted.

Now there's your Voyager.

 

[Orphalesion]

Now that would have been interesting. season of them readjusting to being home/back in the AQ.

Imagine: 3-4 seasons in Delta, 1 or 2 seasons in Alpha and a couple in Gamma. Then back to the AQ or propel them to the future a la what's been done in Discovery, just not as convoluted.

Now there's your Voyager.

Exactly, I think it would have been the best solution since it would have opened up all the most popular Trek stuff to the writers, would have freed them from the theoretical constraints of Voyager's premise and, as a bonus, it would have shown us the Alpha Quadrant after the Dominion War.

 

[gweeps]

Exactly, I think it would have been the best solution since it would have opened up all the most popular Trek stuff to the writers, would have freed them from the theoretical constraints of Voyager's premise and, as a bonus, it would have shown us the Alpha Quadrant after the Dominion War.

Yeah, though I've read Picard, season 3 will somewhat deal with the Dominion War aftermath.

 

[Orphalesion]

Yeah, though I've read Picard, season 3 will somewhat deal with the Dominion War aftermath.

I mean Picard from it's very beginning is Post-Dominon War, as is Lower Decks and Prodigy. i suppose you mean the immediate aftermath?
Still, I'm unable to enjoy Picard (even though I'd like to) so that won't exactly help me :-/

 

[eschaton]

The second season of Voyager was actually a bit serialized. It was also unfortunately horribly executed, which might be why they backed away from the format.

 

[gweeps]

They should have focused more on the Vidiians instead of the Kazon.

'Deadlock' is one of the greatest Star Trek episodes.

 

[Orphalesion]

I think a bit problem with voyager actually living up to its premise and/or experimenting more with serialization was they simply didn't manage to make the Delta Quadrant as interesting as the Alpha/Beta Quadrant area.
With the rare exception none of the aliens they primed as potential recurring species/antagonists not the Talaxians, definitely not the Kazon, not the Vaadwaur, not those robots from Prototype...
The Vidiians and the Hirogen who had some potential were handled poorly (especially the Hirogen became a joke with their stupid Space Nazi holodeck episode...sorry, the moment you put an alien in a Nazi uniform it becomes laughable)
So the only two interesting species they had were the Borg, whom they used poorly, overused and turned into almost harmless villains that could easily be beat, and the Krenim, who only showed up in one episode.
I mean, seriously on the Borg, by season seven it seems like Janeway could walk into the Borg Queen's villain lair and slap her in the face whenever she felt like it.

 

[gweeps]

I think a bit problem with voyager actually living up to its premise and/or experimenting more with serialization was they simply didn't manage to make the Delta Quadrant as interesting as the Alpha/Beta Quadrant area.
With the rare exception none of the aliens they primed as potential recurring species/antagonists not the Talaxians, definitely not the Kazon, not the Vaadwaur, not those robots from Prototype...
The Vidiians and the Hirogen who had some potential were handled poorly (especially the Hirogen became a joke with their stupid Space Nazi holodeck episode...sorry, the moment you put an alien in a Nazi uniform it becomes laughable)
So the only two interesting species they had were the Borg, whom they used poorly, overused and turned into almost harmless villains that could easily be beat, and the Krenim, who only showed up in one episode.

Yeah, the Hirogen had a short run, too.

It's unfortunate about the Krenim. I would've liked to see a larger arc with them. I'm sure many feel the same way.

Man, come to think of it, there really were a lot of missed opportunities with Voyager. Even if they had more episodes like 'Distant Origin' to show how their presence in the Delta Quadrant impacted other species...

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"Prototype" was an awfully good episode, that was pretty much perfect as a stand-alone. I don't see how there's anything interesting to be mined from that premise that wasn't already touched on in the episode.

On their way home they got to fly through all sorts of interesting stuff week by week.

^ "Distant Origin" was another one that always surprises me that it's just one episode. It's one of those premises that sorta screams "two-parter,' but they managed to tell a complete story with it in just one episode. They deserve props for that, actually.