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Spoilers Season 3 Cast Announcement

My ranking of the TNG Movies:

"The Best of Both Worlds"
Star Trek: First Contact
Star Trek: Picard
Season 3 (pre-emptive ranking)
"Gambit"
"Redemption"
"All Good Things"
"Chain of Command"
"Unification"
"Time's Arrow"
"Birthright"
"Descent"
Star Trek: Generations
"Encounter at Farpoint"

Did I miss anything? No. I think I got it all. :devil:
You are seriously overrating Gambit.
 
I'm looking at this as TNG's Undiscovered Country, with a dash of All Good Things (future segments) and new elements..?

What bothers me about this analogy is that it completely ignores the unique elements and narrative identity of Star Trek: Picard. It's like TNG coming in and taking over another show's finale again, like they did with "These Are the Voyages..." on ENT.
 
I think that INS is a total betrayal of Star Trek values, which have always been, “When it comes to settling differences, talking is always preferable to fighting.” In this movie, the heroes never attempt to establish a dialog between the opposing factions. It’s just, “We disagree! Lock and load!”
Did you miss the entire "How many people does it take" dialog?
 
I think that INS is a total betrayal of Star Trek values, which have always been, “When it comes to settling differences, talking is always preferable to fighting.” In this movie, the heroes never attempt to establish a dialog between the opposing factions. It’s just, “We disagree! Lock and load!”

The problem with this argument is that we see Picard and the crew evacuating the Bak'u and only firing on automated transport drones on the surface, and the Enterprise crew only firing on the Son'a ships in self-defense. Their big "action" was literally just getting the Bak'u to an evac point where they couldn't be teleported. That's not being aggressive or pre-emptively violent.
 
That wasn’t exactly a diplomatic attempt at conflict resolution.

Yes, it was. And it was very clear that Dougherty and the Son'a crews were unwilling to negotiate in good faith terms by which they would end their illegal, colonialist conspiracy to engage in forced relocation of a sovereign nation.

Again, the so-called "aggressive action" Picard and co. undertook was to move the Bak'u to a location where they couldn't be teleported and to move the Enterprise to a location where they could report Dougherty's actions to the Federation Council and the public. They never shot until fired upon. Hardly violent or undiplomatic.
 
Picard also suggested a compromise to Dougherty in that there were so few Ba'ku that they would've gladly let the Son'a establish their own colony on the surface of the planet.

Dougherty summarily shut it down with saying that most Son'a won't live long enough to start benefitting from the natural radiation, therefore there was no other way but to go forward with the radiation extraction procedure that would render the planet uninhabitable, and his decision was final as Picard's superior officer and the Federation's official representative. I took it to be pretty much bullshit that the Son'a fed him, considering even the natural form of the radiation rejuvenated everyone from the Enterprise crew, completely regenerated Geordi's eyes in a matter of hours and cured whatever bad condition Sojef had (I don't quite remember because I watched it dubbed in Hungarian so I have no idea if it was just old age or something else). The only catch was that Geordi went blind again after leaving the area, but if the Son'a established their colony, this wouldn't have been a problem... also, Dougherty's "explanation" that most Son'a would need ten years to start seeing the effects of the natural radiation, to me at least, would imply that they would stop their own longevity, and more importantly, detox treatments after establishing their colony, but if they were indeed in such a bad shape, nothing would've stopped them from continuing those treatments (especially the detox one) for an interim period. But considering how hell-bent they were on avenging their exile that doomed them to an existence without naturally occuring immortality, I have a strong feeling that while they absolutely could've solved this without destroying the planet, they simply didn't want to.

EDIT: God, am I really defending Insurrection? What a day.
 
I think that INS is a total betrayal of Star Trek values, which have always been, “When it comes to settling differences, talking is always preferable to fighting.” In this movie, the heroes never attempt to establish a dialog between the opposing factions. It’s just, “We disagree! Lock and load!”

The ultimate allegorical message is a few hundred rich NIMBYs matter more than improving the lives of billions.
 
The idea that saving the lives of billions justifies taking away or even destroying the homes of a foreign people is the exact same philosophy the Confederation has.

All the justifications Dougherty had were extremely flimsy. They can be deported because it's not their homeworld, they're just luddite colonists from a spacefaring civilization etc... but the entire region was uninhabited when they arrived, why would their being colonists invalidate their claim to the planet? He claims the planet is in Federation space, but forgets to mention that the Ba'Ku colonized it before humanity even developed the warp drive. And now the Federation just comes here and wants them deported with the justification of "this is mine now"? They're not just some squatters illegally occupying property the Federation owns. They're basically a Native American tribe deported from their land to an inhospitable desert because some plantation owners decided it would be perfect for growing cotton.
 
The idea that saving the lives of billions justifies taking away or even destroying the homes of a foreign people is the exact same philosophy the Confederation has.

All the justifications Dougherty had were extremely flimsy. They can be deported because it's not their homeworld, they're just luddite colonists from a spacefaring civilization etc... but the entire region was uninhabited when they arrived, why would their being colonists invalidate their claim to the planet? He claims the planet is in Federation space, but forgets to mention that the Ba'Ku colonized it before humanity even developed the warp drive. And now the Federation just comes here and wants them deported with the justification of "this is mine now"? They're not just some squatters illegally occupying property the Federation owns. They're basically a Native American tribe deported from their land to an inhospitable desert because some plantation owners decided it would be perfect for growing cotton.

Exactly. The Bak'u are a sovereign nation and that planet is their territory and no one else's. The Federation has no right to steal their world from them.
 
They're basically a Native American tribe deported from their land to an inhospitable desert because some plantation owners decided it would be perfect for growing cotton.

But now generations later those plantation owners has discovered oil under their new land and want to strip mine it, killing the natives in the process.

To circle back to Season 3 of Picard. Insurrection was a great film, one of (if not the) the best, but as the final TNG film it didn’t close the story in a way that TUC did. Maybe if they'd made a fourth TNG film it could have closed it, but they didn't, and it's why I'm so excited about the potential of season 3 of Picard.
 
No, the ultimate allegorical message is that colonialism isn't justified by the extraction of foreign nations' wealth.

That message doesn't work though, because the Ba'Ku aren't indigenous to the planet. They are settlers from elsewhere. They're more like wealthy Californians in a quaint seaside town settled a few generations back than an indigenous people.

I mean, I know what they were going for, but by making them colonial settlers (and casting white people) they ruined the message, IMHO.
 
That message doesn't work though, because the Ba'Ku aren't indigenous to the planet. They are settlers from elsewhere. They're more like wealthy Californians in a quaint seaside town settled a few generations back than an indigenous people.

I mean, I know what they were going for, but by making them colonial settlers (and casting white people) they ruined the message, IMHO.
How many generations does a people need to occupy a certain place before it becomes legally theirs then? They colonized a planet no one else had a claim for. Just because it came within the Federation's sphere of influence hundreds of years later, it doesn't give them the right to deport the Ba'ku. The Federation shouldn't behave like the 16th century Spanish and Portuguese, freely and legally destroying colonies of other states built on virgin lands merely because the Pope drew a straight line on a globe and said "this part belongs to you now."
 
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