• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

It's actually astonishing that the Jabba/Leia scenes in ROTJ didn't cause a scandal, back in 1983

It wasn't either of the two times he slaughtered numerous children?
Well, the Jedi Temple massacre came after he turned on Mace. He'd already committed himself to the dark side.

As for the the Tusken Raiders, that's still not turning on a Jedi. At that point, there still remains the possibility that he isn't going to help destroy the Jedi Order. I would agree that Anakin should have been expelled from the Jedi Order for that, though. If only Yoda's sense of what was happening had been clearer.

So, to your question, the answer would be, "No."
 
If the Jedi Council had survived the events of RotS, I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for the 'debriefing' regarding Anakin.

"So...the guy you believed to be your messiah figure turned on you and slaughtered hundreds of men, women and children after swearing allegiance to the Chancellor, who was a Sith Lord operating right under your noses for decades, and enabling said Sith Lord to kill the head of your council. This messiah figure turned on you to save the life of his wife, even though those kinds of emotional attachments are forbidden by your order, and either none of you knew about that attachment, or were just completely ineffective in doing anything about it? Oh...and said Sith Lord also played two sides of a Galactic Civl War against each other, killing thousands(?) of people as part of an elaborate plot to wipe all of you out, and you might have figured that out for yourselves if you'd ever managed to take one of the leaders of the factions alive instead of killing them. Does that about cover it?"
 
It wasn't either of the two times he slaughtered numerous children?
The Tusken slaughter could have had consequences but he still was willing to change. Killing Mace pretty much cemented his commitment. Also, did he kill other children before Mace?
 
I lost a lot of respect for Padme by the end of AotC. Presumably she never mentioned Anakin's "lapse" to anyone who might have been able to help him if they'd known he was that unstable.
 
I lost a lot of respect for Padme by the end of AotC. Presumably she never mentioned Anakin's "lapse" to anyone who might have been able to help him if they'd known he was that unstable.
Same. Her being present with Anakin in his grief is commendable but the lack of follow up is awful.
 
I lost a lot of respect for Padme by the end of AotC. Presumably she never mentioned Anakin's "lapse" to anyone who might have been able to help him if they'd known he was that unstable.
Same. Her being present with Anakin in his grief is commendable but the lack of follow up is awful.

That's how tragedy works, though. When the characters are faced with choices, they make the wrong ones. They're blinded by their fatal flaws, or they disastrously misunderstand the situation or each other, and all the audience can do is watch the train wreck happen. Padme's fatal mistake was letting her love for Anakin drive her to lie for him and cover up his crimes. I guess you could say she put attachment over duty.
 
That's how tragedy works, though. When the characters are faced with choices, they make the wrong ones. They're blinded by their fatal flaws, or they disastrously misunderstand the situation or each other, and all the audience can do is watch the train wreck happen. Padme's fatal mistake was letting her love for Anakin drive her to lie for him and cover up his crimes. I guess you could say she put attachment over duty.
Which is fine for a tragedy. Unfortunately, what the prequels failed to do was make me give a damn about these characters before tragedy struck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kor
Which is fine for a tragedy. Unfortunately, what the prequels failed to do was make me give a damn about these characters before tragedy struck.

The prequels were definitely weak, needing the hand of better writers and directors. But for me, Episode III was the most effective one, largely because of its pervasive sense of looming, inexorable tragedy.
 
I would have been more forgiving of Padme if she hadn't been the queen of a planet previously and a senator henceforth. There's being blinded by love enough to let things go unremarked upon, and then there's failing to mention that someone massacred a village because he got pissed off. She's not some lovesick teenager, she's someone who's worked in government for the majority of her life and should have some understanding that love or not, you don't just sweep stuff like this under the rug.

I agree that RotS is the best of the three, and I still take pride in having derided TPM as "Disney does Star Wars" long before Disney acquired Star Wars.
 
I would have been more forgiving of Padme if she hadn't been the queen of a planet previously. There's being blinded by love enough to let things go unremarked upon, and then there's failing to mention that someone massacred a village because he got pissed off.
Padmé was also a sitting Senator of the Republic. Padmé did not resign; she merely delegated her authority to Jar Jar while she went underground after the assassination attempts against her.
 
I wonder whether her failing to report what Anakin did technically would constitute a crime. It occurred on a non-Republic world, but knowingly withholding that a Jedi committed mass murder seems like kind of a big deal...

I assume the cartoons and such never address this...i.e. Padme never even thinks about it again, from everything we have to work with.

Sigh.
 
I would have been more forgiving of Padme if she hadn't been the queen of a planet previously and a senator henceforth. There's being blinded by love enough to let things go unremarked upon, and then there's failing to mention that someone massacred a village because he got pissed off. She's not some lovesick teenager, she's someone who's worked in government for the majority of her life and should have some understanding that love or not, you don't just sweep stuff like this under the rug.

Given how the Tusken were always treated prior to The Mandalorian/The Book of Boba Fett as the equivalent of the "savage Indians" in old Westerns, I wonder if maybe Padme just didn't think of them as people, if she had an unexamined prejudice that led her to dismiss their slaughter as unimportant. I mean, it's hard to see how someone belonging to a diverse multispecies civilization would have a racial prejudice, but maybe it's a prejudice based less on species than on civilization, so that she thinks less of a species living at a "primitive" level than one with cities, high technology, etc.

That's hard to reconcile with Padme's character as usually portrayed, certainly in The Clone Wars, but within the context of the prequel trilogy, given the trope the Tusken Raiders embodied in Lucas's films, it kind of fits. And a lot of people have prejudices they don't recognize. Sometimes a person can be very open-minded and inclusive in most respects, but still have one group that they reject and dehumanize. For instance, I recently read a review of one of my books that praised its cast's ethnic and gender diversity but then gave me whiplash by complaining vehemently that the book included a nonbinary character and addressed pronoun preferences.
 
I wonder whether her failing to report what Anakin did technically would constitute a crime. It occurred on a non-Republic world, but knowingly withholding that a Jedi committed mass murder seems like kind of a big deal...

I assume the cartoons and such never address this...i.e. Padme never even thinks about it again, from everything we have to work with.

Sigh.

I'm going one step further.

We did not see Padme's original memories.

He admitted to a minor genocide.

She spun out.

He Jedi mind tricked her into being cool with it, and retroactively always being cool with the mass murder of women and children, and she doesn't remember spinning out.

Then they made love.

He didn't wash his hands.

She spins out again.

He jedi mind tricks her again.

Serious but... That's a lot of literal blood on his hands.

And then he put his fingers inside her.

Either she is a dummy, or he brain washes Padme every damn day to keep her from running away.
 
Given how the Tusken were always treated prior to The Mandalorian/The Book of Boba Fett as the equivalent of the "savage Indians" in old Westerns, I wonder if maybe Padme just didn't think of them as people, if she had an unexamined prejudice that led her to dismiss their slaughter as unimportant. I mean, it's hard to see how someone belonging to a diverse multispecies civilization would have a racial prejudice, but maybe it's a prejudice based less on species than on civilization, so that she thinks less of a species living at a "primitive" level than one with cities, high technology, etc.

That's hard to reconcile with Padme's character as usually portrayed, certainly in The Clone Wars, but within the context of the prequel trilogy, given the trope the Tusken Raiders embodied in Lucas's films, it kind of fits. And a lot of people have prejudices they don't recognize. Sometimes a person can be very open-minded and inclusive in most respects, but still have one group that they reject and dehumanize. For instance, I recently read a review of one of my books that praised its cast's ethnic and gender diversity but then gave me whiplash by complaining vehemently that the book included a nonbinary character and addressed pronoun preferences.

I find this a fairly novel theory...no pun or offense intended... I can't really see it being the wrters' intention, but...as a way to rationalize the situation, it's not a bad attempt. I don't really know how Padme is generally perceived as a character, but I wonder how it would polarize people if it was more explicit within the text that Padme didn't perceive the Tusken as being people. Even if that was just a factor of her environment/upbringing/education, it would raise a bunch of questions concerning what other beliefs she might have that would raise eyebrows.

Though the fact that Anakin explicitly calls out even killing the women and children at least makes it clear that he perceived them as people. Of course, he wasn't horrified enough by his own actions to tell anyone (useful) what he did either. I wonder whether even Palpatine ever found out about that one.
 
Though the fact that Anakin explicitly calls out even killing the women and children at least makes it clear that he perceived them as people. Of course, he wasn't horrified enough by his own actions to tell anyone (useful) what he did either. I wonder whether even Palpatine ever found out about that one.
In the novels, yes. Palpatine knows that and Anakin's marriage.
 
I believe in Revenge of the Sith, Palpatine mentions that Anakin told him about what happened to the Sand People. Thus Anakin did tell the highest authority in the Republic what he did. Though in confidence and not as an official act. And they did not tell the Jedi Council.
 
I believe in Revenge of the Sith, Palpatine mentions that Anakin told him about what happened to the Sand People. Thus Anakin did tell the highest authority in the Republic what he did. Though in confidence and not as an official act. And they did not tell the Jedi Council.
Well, Palpatine was Anakin's closest friend and ally.
 
I would have been more forgiving of Padme if she hadn't been the queen of a planet previously and a senator henceforth. There's being blinded by love enough to let things go unremarked upon, and then there's failing to mention that someone massacred a village because he got pissed off. She's not some lovesick teenager, she's someone who's worked in government for the majority of her life and should have some understanding that love or not, you don't just sweep stuff like this under the rug.

I agree that RotS is the best of the three, and I still take pride in having derided TPM as "Disney does Star Wars" long before Disney acquired Star Wars.
Yeah, I've never really liked the fact that Padme was so quick to just blow off Anakin killing the Sand People. It's shame they never addressed it in The Clone Wars, they could've gotten an interesting story out of it.
Both of EK Johnston's Padme books take place before AotC, don't they?
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top