Do they have the budget to portray the 31st century properly with the Legion of Super Heroes?
Spoilers The Flash - Season 8 Discussion Thread
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Well, it's a comic book show that loves to give characters big redeeming moments. The show has also portrayed the judicial system in rather simplistic ways in previous episodes. So I would not be surprised if the show dealt with consequences of the murders quickly in order to get to the big dramatic redemption moment.
Also, another reason the writers might go the Ronnie route is because it could open up some dramatic possibilities for Caitlin's arc. For one, it would completely change Team Flash's whole approach from needing to contain or destroy a dangerous entity to finding a way to bring back Ronnie. Also, Cailtin is starting to date again. So having the black flames be Ronnie would reopen old wounds for Caitlin. Would she want to get Ronnie back or move on? So I could see the writers wanting to go this direction for the added drama.
Possible, but on the other hand, Chester thought he saw his father in the flames. Maybe the entity is trying to mimic people's lost loved ones, drawn to their residual grief. I dunno, I feel it needs to be more than that, since they wouldn't make it this big shocking cliffhanger if it were nothing more than the same kind of mimicry Chester experienced. But maybe it's improving its mimicry as it goes. How's Robbie Amell's career doing these days? Any chance they might bring him back for a guest spot?
Hard to determine what qualifies as spoilers these days. Also easy to forget what the sources are - official news or just rumors.
With that in mind possible SPOILER warning.
I changed what I originally typed because I searched for when and where it was announced he was returning this season. It was officially announced by Entertainment Weekly in November https://ew.com/tv/the-flash-season-8-robbie-amell-return/ So where this has been leading has not been a big mystery to me. Also the focus of Caitlin having a new love interest was setting up her as the center of this. The particular details remain to be seen though.
With that in mind possible SPOILER warning.
I changed what I originally typed because I searched for when and where it was announced he was returning this season. It was officially announced by Entertainment Weekly in November https://ew.com/tv/the-flash-season-8-robbie-amell-return/ So where this has been leading has not been a big mystery to me. Also the focus of Caitlin having a new love interest was setting up her as the center of this. The particular details remain to be seen though.
If he's not in his right mind he may get the same forgiveness that Frost got. When she first manifested she was flat out trying to kill Vibe a couple times.
I don't think that quite works as an analogy, because despite the whole split-personality thing, Killer Frost was sane and in control of herself, not under any kind of mental influence. Caitlin would've been considered innocent for KF's crimes because she wasn't in control of her body at those times, but since they defined Frost as a distinct individual, we can't exempt her from responsibility for her own choices. However, presumably for that reason, the writers were careful to limit "Killer" Frost's crimes to attempted murder rather than actually having her live up to her epithet. That tells us they wanted to keep her redeemable by not letting her cross the line.
Redeemable by reason of failure. You're not deemed a risk to the public because you're so bad at murder...
I'm speaking in narrative terms. A character who tries to kill and fails hasn't crossed the line. They've made mistakes, but no irreversible ones.
I mean, heck, that's a pretty standard storytelling formula. Look at all the thousands of iterations of the trope where a hero tries to take revenge on the person who murdered their spouse/sibling/parent/best friend/mentor/etc., and is on the verge of killing them, but their friends convince them "If you do this, you'll be just like them," so they choose not to kill and it's all okay.
Jesse L. Martin will only be recurring next season, he's landed a new headline gig on the NBC pilot The Irrational
https://deadline.com/2022/04/jesse-...ons-star-the-irrational-nbc-pilot-1235001375/
https://deadline.com/2022/04/jesse-...ons-star-the-irrational-nbc-pilot-1235001375/
Disappointing, but he's been heading that way for a while now, generally just showing for one or two scenes to dispense wisdom.
That was my thinking too. Hopefully knowing he has limited and specific episodes,his participation will be more meaningful . The writers will need to write him in now.
One of the downsides of large extended casts is often the regulars get smaller roles. Compared to reoccurring and guest stars who are the focus for their episode(s). Not just part of the background as regulars often are.
Oh, great point.
I'm reminded of the '89 series Alien Nation. In the first 13 episodes, they had a sprawling "regular" cast of supporting characters who got main title billing but were used infrequently (including one who only briefly appeared twice after the pilot, including a no-dialogue walk-on), and several of them were dropped for the back nine of the show's single season (not counting the later revival movies). One of them was a sleazy tabloid reporter played by Jeff Doucette, and his only actual focus episode was the one where they brought him back as a guest star after he'd been dropped as a regular.
I am fascinated by looking at series cast lists on IMDb. Actors are listed by number of credited appearances. It’s gotten better at showing if someone is credited but does not appear in an episode.
With long running series it gives a perspective on who the the most important characters are. Which are not always regulars.
With long running series it gives a perspective on who the the most important characters are. Which are not always regulars.
Sometimes those can be misleading, though, because someone who was a bit background player in dozens of episodes, like Mr. Ayala on Star Trek: Voyager, say, can be listed above a more major player who was only an occasional guest star. Or it might be someone who only does a voiceover role such as a computer voice, e.g. Daisy Torme on Superman and Lois.
And sometimes IMDb credits are straight-up wrong. For instance, their credits for the 1988 syndicated Superboy used to claim that an actor named Zevi Wolmark played a character named Christopher Grimes in every episode of seasons 3-4, so he was something like fifth-highest on the cast list, but no such character or actor ever actually appeared in the show as far as I could tell when I rewatched it for my Patreon a while back. The same actor used to be listed on IMDb as a voice cast member in the '80s animated series COPS, but the actual credits of the show never list him. Checking now, I see that all his credits have been removed except for one reality show, although his bio still claims he was a popular actor appearing in dozens of classic shows. The whole thing seems pretty fishy to me. (I'd wonder if my mention of that on my Patreon might have helped lead to the fake credits getting purged, but my Patreon has so few readers that I doubt it.)
I've seen some more innocuous errors in older series' credit pages, say, where someone who appeared in one episode is mistakenly listed as a regular.
And sometimes someone will add roles to IMDb that haven't been officially announced yet.
Picard and Strange New Worlds IMDb pages have had actors added before being officially announced. Though once they're pointed out they're usually removed almost right away until they're officially confirmed.
Both shows spoilers
I'm guessing the actors, their agents or someone else connected to them or the production jumping the gun updating their IMDb pages
Picard and Strange New Worlds IMDb pages have had actors added before being officially announced. Though once they're pointed out they're usually removed almost right away until they're officially confirmed.
Both shows spoilers
A stunt double for James Callis was listed for this week's Picard episode a while back, and T'Pring's actress in SNW was on there last year. Kestra's actress was on Picard's Season 1 IMDb several months before the show aired, and even before she showed up in any trailers.
I'm guessing the actors, their agents or someone else connected to them or the production jumping the gun updating their IMDb pages
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One of the worst inaccuracies is someone assumed an “AWest” credited on the 1990 The Flash series was a Adam West cameo. It’s traveled from IMDb and now appears on Wikipedia and various other places. Always suspicious I messaged producer Danny Bilson a few years about it. He confirmed that Adam never was on the show. That AWEST was the name of an artist who worked on the show.
I submitted a correction but last I checked nothing has changed.
IMDb is a nice starting point but always best to verify for one’s self. It’s crazy that it’s used by other places as an official source. I was stunned when DVDs first started in the late 90s that the big studios were importing filmographies for bonus features from IMDb without verification. I still get older movies from the library and still see huge mistakes.
I submitted a correction but last I checked nothing has changed.
IMDb is a nice starting point but always best to verify for one’s self. It’s crazy that it’s used by other places as an official source. I was stunned when DVDs first started in the late 90s that the big studios were importing filmographies for bonus features from IMDb without verification. I still get older movies from the library and still see huge mistakes.
Or that aren't in the production at all. I still remember the IMDb entry for Star Trek Nemesis before it came out. They listed virtually every actor who'd ever played a Romulan on TNG, DS9, or VGR.
When Allegra said "blackest night" in the context of resurrecting the dead, I thought, "Oh, is that where this is going?" And I guess it is. I'm not familiar with Deathstorm, but the DC wiki says the original version was the Black Lantern counterpart of Firestorm.
I didn't care for the whole "Ronnie wants to die so we should let him go" argument. Just because someone feels suicidal while they're racked with pain and guilt doesn't mean they'd necessarily still feel that way once they were thinking clearly again. Many, even most people who survive suicide attempts end up not trying again because they realize they were wrong. So the mere fact that someone feels suicidal is absolutely not a good enough reason by itself to help them commit suicide. I mean, if death is the only possible release from unending torment, then maybe, but here, the team already had an alternative plan for bringing Ronnie back to life, so that didn't apply.
Also, the separation of the parallel Barry and Iris plots is awkward. Why did Sue wait until she got to Barry's to tell him Iris was missing? Why not call him up and let him know? I mean, yeah, Sue's phone disappeared the first time she tried it, but there are gazillions of phones in the world, so she could've gotten another. And why has so much of the storytelling these days been designed to keep Barry and Iris apart, anyway?
I've learned that Tinya is based on Phantom Girl from the Legion of Super Heroes, so I'm kind of hoping her story arc somehow leads to a guest appearance from Supergirl's Brainiac-5 and Dreamer. I'm also hoping the Black Lantern elements mean we might get another Diggle appearance and some movement on the whole GL question. Or maybe the Firestorm connection could set up an appearance by Jefferson Jackson.
I didn't care for the whole "Ronnie wants to die so we should let him go" argument. Just because someone feels suicidal while they're racked with pain and guilt doesn't mean they'd necessarily still feel that way once they were thinking clearly again. Many, even most people who survive suicide attempts end up not trying again because they realize they were wrong. So the mere fact that someone feels suicidal is absolutely not a good enough reason by itself to help them commit suicide. I mean, if death is the only possible release from unending torment, then maybe, but here, the team already had an alternative plan for bringing Ronnie back to life, so that didn't apply.
Also, the separation of the parallel Barry and Iris plots is awkward. Why did Sue wait until she got to Barry's to tell him Iris was missing? Why not call him up and let him know? I mean, yeah, Sue's phone disappeared the first time she tried it, but there are gazillions of phones in the world, so she could've gotten another. And why has so much of the storytelling these days been designed to keep Barry and Iris apart, anyway?
I've learned that Tinya is based on Phantom Girl from the Legion of Super Heroes, so I'm kind of hoping her story arc somehow leads to a guest appearance from Supergirl's Brainiac-5 and Dreamer. I'm also hoping the Black Lantern elements mean we might get another Diggle appearance and some movement on the whole GL question. Or maybe the Firestorm connection could set up an appearance by Jefferson Jackson.
As long as we are bringing back old ass Firestorm concepts...
What about Ronnie's stepmother?
What about Ronnie's stepmother?
This was a pretty good Caitlin episode. And I have to say, Deathstorm looks pretty awesome and comic accurate too. If only they could somehow bring Firestorm back to face off with him.
I agree with Christopher that it’s very contrived that Sue wouldn’t use any other phone to contact Barry about Iris.
I agree with Christopher that it’s very contrived that Sue wouldn’t use any other phone to contact Barry about Iris.
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