it makes sense, but don’t forget that Q caused this whole thing. So things might work a little different than normally whenever Q is involved. Because we still don’t know exactly what happened it’s hard to say at this point one way or the other.
Spoilers Time travel issues S2
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
it makes sense, but don’t forget that Q caused this whole thing. So things might work a little different than normally whenever Q is involved. Because we still don’t know exactly what happened it’s hard to say at this point one way or the other.
I have some time for that explanation. I think where it got confusing is when the characters imply they need to find the point where things "changed" in 2024. Which then implies all points before that event is *unchanged*
Unless the divergence was a series of events being set in motion.
You're not supposed to make sense of it, it's just an easter egg.
Yes. Picard even says this to Raffi, Seven and Elnor in 'Penance'. Q tells Picard essentially the same; "This is home."
Seven is wholly human because she was never assimilated as a child by the Borg.
Which signals to me the original timeline is lost forever . This would imply they are using "history cannot be changed " rules or any "restoration " to the timeline would never truly recover the original one.
Not necessarily, unless the First Contact timeline is a divergent too.
Any time travel event in Trek that isn't a predestination paradox alters the timeline.
We've never seen the 'original timeline' in Trek. The timeline has been altered dozens maybe hundreds of times since the series started.
The Word of God says Time's Arrow never happened in this timeline, so it never happened.
If the creator of the story says it didn't happen, it didn't happen. Until the next creator comes along and says otherwise.
This isn't real life, it's a fictional series. Question stuff you hear in real life all the time if it doesn't make sense, sure. But in a fictional series, if the creator/writer says something is what it is, that is what it is. They wrote the story with that in mind, so that is what it is.
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Yeppers.
why would you assume they have to? Since time has changed any number of possible different events could have occurred and some of them would be that probe never even came to earth. Or other events stopped it.How did the Confederation deal with the Whale Probe?
Pure guess probably not. My gut feeling is that Guinean wouldn’t be aware of it on that level. Just based off Yesterdays Enterprise and this episode she feels something off when confronted by it. Would Guinean in a restored timeline centuries later be aware of it? I would say if they were asking her about it in 2024 around her when events are restored I would guess yes.
And my response is:
If people get to claim that ENT, for example, takes place in an alternate timeline when the people making it clearly said it wasn't, then I get to claim PIC's version of 2024 ISN'T an alternate timeline even if Terry Matalas and his ilk say it is.
This works both ways. Either both sides get to use the "headcanon" argument, or neither do.
Putting aside the time travel explanations, just from a narrative perspective, it's confusing that they need to stop something that changes everything from happening, from a point where everything has changed already.
In City in the Edge of Forever, Spock's tricorder sees 2 possible futures. One where Germany wins WW2 and one where the timeline is unaffected. All depending whether Edith Keeler lives or dies. Under "Picard" logic, Spock's tricorder should of only picked up the
The Germany winning WW2 future.
In City in the Edge of Forever, Spock's tricorder sees 2 possible futures. One where Germany wins WW2 and one where the timeline is unaffected. All depending whether Edith Keeler lives or dies. Under "Picard" logic, Spock's tricorder should of only picked up the
The Germany winning WW2 future.
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Because I'm not arrogant.
He had that unchanged info on his tricorder already.
Bit, isn't Spock's tricorder from the unaltered timeline? Also, does that mean, with all the time travel incursions that knowledge doesn't start until divergence?
If that's true that information was available in his tricorder before he constructed the memory circuit . But he revealed his finding to Kirk after he made the circuit, I always assumed those 2 possible futures where gleaned from new information when he tied the tricorder to the circuit.
I confess I'm probably mis-remembering the exact details of COTEOF. Either way my point still stands that the episode had a more clearer narrative time travel explanation. Two different futures are still possible. And nothing changes in either timeline until that big event occurs or doesn't occur.
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(To avoid duplication, I'm moving all my discussion of "City" arising out of the "Watcher" thread into this one, since this thread is more specifically about time travel and the post kicking off the discussion was also in this thread.)
It's the other way around. The history in which Edith lives is described as "how history went after McCoy changed it." The other is simply the one in which "Edith Keeler must die."
By the "estimate general happenings" line, there's no way for Spock to confirm whether or not there are any time travelers participating in the events of Edith death.
The timeline in which Edith must die could be though of as "how time went before McCoy changed it" if option #A is viable, or the one in which "McCoy was prevented from changing it" if it is not.
I'm afraid that's not true. That's not what Spock says. From http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/28.htm:
SPOCK: This is how history went after McCoy changed it. Here, in the late 1930s. A growing pacifist movement whose influence delayed the United States' entry into the Second World War. While peace negotiations dragged on, Germany had time to complete its heavy-water experiments.
KIRK: Germany. Fascism. Hitler. They won the Second World War.
SPOCK: Because all this lets them develop the A-bomb first. There's no mistake, Captain. Let me run it again. Edith Keeler. Founder of the peace movement.
KIRK: But she was right. Peace was the way.
SPOCK: She was right, but at the wrong time. With the A-bomb, and with their V2 rockets to carry them, Germany captured the world.
KIRK: No.
SPOCK: And all this because McCoy came back and somehow kept her from dying in a street accident as she was meant to. We must stop him, Jim.
KIRK: How did she die? What day?
SPOCK: We can estimate general happenings from these images, but I can't trace down precise actions at exact moments, Captain. I'm sorry.
KIRK: Spock, I believe I'm in love with Edith Keeler.
SPOCK: Jim, Edith Keeler must die.
KIRK: Germany. Fascism. Hitler. They won the Second World War.
SPOCK: Because all this lets them develop the A-bomb first. There's no mistake, Captain. Let me run it again. Edith Keeler. Founder of the peace movement.
KIRK: But she was right. Peace was the way.
SPOCK: She was right, but at the wrong time. With the A-bomb, and with their V2 rockets to carry them, Germany captured the world.
KIRK: No.
SPOCK: And all this because McCoy came back and somehow kept her from dying in a street accident as she was meant to. We must stop him, Jim.
KIRK: How did she die? What day?
SPOCK: We can estimate general happenings from these images, but I can't trace down precise actions at exact moments, Captain. I'm sorry.
KIRK: Spock, I believe I'm in love with Edith Keeler.
SPOCK: Jim, Edith Keeler must die.
It's the other way around. The history in which Edith lives is described as "how history went after McCoy changed it." The other is simply the one in which "Edith Keeler must die."
By the "estimate general happenings" line, there's no way for Spock to confirm whether or not there are any time travelers participating in the events of Edith death.
The timeline in which Edith must die could be though of as "how time went before McCoy changed it" if option #A is viable, or the one in which "McCoy was prevented from changing it" if it is not.
I think I have pretty much exhausted my feedback on this issue. I'm ok with going with the flow on how the showrunner interprets time travel.
I will leave with one hypothetical. If Guinan did remember Picard, would anyone complain about that "not making sense" time travel wise?
I will leave with one hypothetical. If Guinan did remember Picard, would anyone complain about that "not making sense" time travel wise?
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