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Sally Kellerman has passed at age 84

And depicting an all female command crew in a military setting I would find unbelievable.

Why?

It was something I was glad to see in Star Trek Continues, but then they shot themselves in the foot with their truly stupid rationalization why women were not allowed to be starship captains. Pissed me off royally.

What was their rationalization?
 
What was their rationalization?
The Tellerites, as founding members of the Federation, and also extremely chauvinistic, demanded that women not be allowed to command Starfleet starships or they would pull their support for founding the UFP.

Seriously, WTF!! How could the rest cave to such a stupid condition?
 
The Tellerites, as founding members of the Federation, and also extremely chauvinistic, demanded that women not be allowed to command Starfleet starships or they would pull their support for founding the UFP.

Seriously, WTF!! How could the rest cave to such a stupid condition?

Perhaps they were concerned about the unbelievable eventuality of an all female command crew... ;)
 
I'd gender flip everyone.

You may enjoy a couple stories in the IDW Kelvinverse comics...

You suggested gender flipping all the characters so that means the majority of the main characters would all be women. So that accomplishes nothing. And depicting an all female command crew in a military setting I would find unbelievable.

Oooo, gather 'round every one! Some one just called Starfleet a military again...
 

A culture whose women are the ones who go off to guard their nation and fight the wars, while military men of that culture are nowhere to be found, is a culture whose women are not giving birth, something only women can do, and raising families. That is a culture set to wither away and die within a few generations. Each generation of that culture would be a fraction of the last, and other tribes would quickly out-compete and overwhelm it.

No tribe that followed that insane "women are our war fighters" strategy ever survived past the stone age. Feminism is all well and good, but there really is such a thing as human biology.
 
Where the hell are we getting the idea that Tellarites are chauvinistic? :confused:
Well that was the rationalization that STC went with instead of just accepting Janice Lester was a bitter nutjob.

For those who haven’t seen the STC episode “Embrace The Winds” the story was a starship needed a new Captain. A commander Garrett put her name forward for the posting even as a Starbase Commodore (played by Erin Gray) was prepared to offer the command to Spock. Although they formally gave Garrett a hearing to present her qualifications it was revealed it would be moot because a condition of the Tellerites’ membership in the Federation was that no women could be allowed to command a starship.

Meanwhile no explanation as to why Commodore Gray commanded a starbase. It made ZERO sense.
 
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It was possible to achieve flag rank without starship command experience--see Commodore Stocker.
 
It was possible to achieve flag rank without starship command experience--see Commodore Stocker.
Yeah, but Commodore Gray was wearing gold, not red.

It still grates. If TOS had shown a woman in command of a starship, even as a guest role, it would have been huge and a significant sign of TOS’ message of inclusiveness in the 1960s. Thats where STC should have gone rather than the way they did. It was a serious brain fart the way they did it.
 
A culture whose women are the ones who go off to guard their nation and fight the wars, while military men of that culture are nowhere to be found, is a culture whose women are not giving birth, something only women can do, and raising families. That is a culture set to wither away and die within a few generations. Each generation of that culture would be a fraction of the last, and other tribes would quickly out-compete and overwhelm it.

No tribe that followed that insane "women are our war fighters" strategy ever survived past the stone age. Feminism is all well and good, but there really is such a thing as human biology.

If you can posit a world where women are Commodores and Admirals, then it's a world with no barriers to parity between men and women in the military. In such a world, it is a statistical certainty that any given group of seven officers might be majority or even overwhelmingly majority women.

I'm interested in seeing that show. That's why I'd "gender flip".

As for women being the dominant military gender, even back in 1966, Mack Reynolds published Amazon Planet, (in Analog of all places), making the intriguing suggestion that, while men may make better tribal warriors, women make better modern soldiers.

There's nothing that keeps women from being career military officers and mothers, even today, let alone the future. I'm not saying I expect women will ever become the dominant military gender, but I do suggest that poohpoohing the idea on a biological basis, in a modern context, is less a biologically informed opinion, and more a culturally informed one.
 
Yeah, but Commodore Gray was wearing gold, not red.

It still grates. If TOS had shown a woman in command of a starship, even as a guest role, it would have been huge and a significant sign of TOS’ message of inclusiveness in the 1960s. Thats where STC should have gone rather than the way they did. It was a serious brain fart the way they did it.

The episode doesn't specify, but I took it as the Telerites weighing the scales for men specifically when selecting captains for the jewel of Starfleet at the time that was the Constitution class specifically, not that they'd kept females from captaining ships in the 150+ years of Starfleet history.
 
A culture whose women are the ones who go off to guard their nation and fight the wars, while military men of that culture are nowhere to be found, is a culture whose women are not giving birth, something only women can do, and raising families. That is a culture set to wither away and die within a few generations. Each generation of that culture would be a fraction of the last, and other tribes would quickly out-compete and overwhelm it.

No tribe that followed that insane "women are our war fighters" strategy ever survived past the stone age. Feminism is all well and good, but there really is such a thing as human biology.

What if only a small percentage of the women went to war in each generation. Thus most of the women in each generation would stay at home and be available to have children.

In some countries all the men have to serve a few months or a few years in the military to get military trainng, then they are in the reserves for a period of years and liable to be called up for military service in time of war. And some of those countries get in a lot of big wars and so military service consures of significant percentage of the time the men could have been doing civilian stuff. And other countries with unversal consription fight very few war and very small wars, so the percentage of time their men serve on active duty is small and they have lenty of time for civilian stuff..

And if the second type of country had universal conscription for women instead of men, the miitary trainng woould cut down on the women's chld bearing years a lbit. But so long as there weren't long wars involving large numbers of women, they still should have been able to reproduce enought to maintain and increase the population.

Or think about the UK during most of the period from 1815 to 1914. Military service was almost entirely voluntary in the small regular army. Except for the Crimean War in 1853-56 and the Boer War in 1899-1902, Britain didn't have a military manpower problem, despite fighting one or more colonial wars all the time during that period. At anyone time no more than about 1 percent of the male population of the UK was in the military which numbered only a few hundred thousand at its highest. If the UK soldiers had all been female instead of male, it would not have reduced reproduciton rates much.

In the 19th century, 1800-1900, the USA fourght 8 large wars, The War of 1812 in 1812-15, the Mexican-American War in 1846-48, the Civil War in 1861-65, the Spanish American War in 1898, and the Philippine-American War in 1899-1902.. In those four wars the majority of US troops were United States Volunteers. In the Civil War the number of men in the armed forces reached several percent of the adult male population, though well under ten percent, and the northern civilian farming and industry sectors managed to increase their output during the war.

But the USA was involved with smaller military conflicts in almost every year of the 19th century, on a somewhat smaller scale than the UK. - most of those conflicts with various nations, tribes, and groups of Indians within the US borders, though some with foreign countries like Korea. And most of the US armed forces in those conflicts were members of the regular army, the United States Army proper.

Throughout the 19th century the total of all the armies of the United States of America, including the United States Army, the United States Volunteers, and perhaps sometimes including militia called into service, varied from a low of 2,486 in 1803 to a high of 1,000,692 in 1865. During times without major wars, but constant minor conflicts, the regular army of the US that fought those conflicts never exceeded 30,000 men except in 1866 to 1869, and never exceeded 20,000 men except in 1866 to 1899. The regular army reached a maximum 19th century strength of only 57,194 in 1867. With the Navy and Marines, the maximum peacetime strength of all US armed services was only 76,749 in 1866.

http://alternatewars.com/BBOW/Stats/US_Mil_Manpower_1789-1997.htm

So if the United States armed forces had consisted entirely of women and girls instead of men and boys (with a few females disguesed as men) during the19th century it would not have been a significent drain on the availability of women for reproduction.

The idea that all societies everywhere and throughout all time fight so often, and with such a large percentage of their populations as warriors, that a military composed of females would always result in catastrophic lack of reproduction is a a gross exaggeration.
 
The idea that all societies everywhere and throughout all time fight so often, and with such a large percentage of their populations as warriors, that a military composed of females would always result in catastrophic lack of reproduction is a a gross exaggeration.

A different tack from the one I took, and excellent, thank you. :)
 
As for women being the dominant military gender, even back in 1966, Mack Reynolds published Amazon Planet, (in Analog of all places), making the intriguing suggestion that, while men may make better tribal warriors, women make better modern soldiers.

In Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers (1959), the infantry are exclusively male, but women dominate the space navy, because they have proven to make better space pilots. Heinlein also co-wrote the movie Project Moonbase (1953), where the first US orbital pilot and the senior officer of the title project is a woman, due to payload weight advantages (the same weight considerations make the standard space uniform a t-shirt and shorts). Spoiler: A message of female empowerment does not make it all the way through the movie (big surprise)!
 
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