J
John Stefan
Guest
What were the Borg Exactly? I look forward to some replies.
Cyborgs.
A humanoid race that experimented with cyber-augmentation. Their experiments went way too far, creating a hive mind, destroying individual free will, and creating an insatiable will to expand their will by forcibly adding other species and their technology to their collective.
And they could have been destroyed by showing them an MC Escher print.
And they could have been destroyed by showing them an MC Escher print.
They were a race created to be the 'Big Threat' after the previous 'Big Threat' race fell flat on its face far sooner than intended (i.e. the Ferengi).
And within a few years, they fell flat on their face as well, once Janeway with her resource-deprived starship routinely started to win confrontations with them.
And within a few years, they fell flat on their face as well, once Janeway with her resource-deprived starship routinely started to win confrontations with them.
I don't think the use of Borg as the big baddie "fell flat on their faces". Most casual viewers who heard of the Ferengi probably don't realize they were once intended to be villains. But they definitely know the Borg were....and still see them as villains. They just were overused, and saw the heroes overcome them too often. That's it.
Hell, some suggested that Borg might turn out to be the identity of the alien species 10-C on Discovery.
Hell, some suggested that Borg might turn out to be the identity of the alien species 10-C on Discovery.
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FTFY.
Remember, infinite torpedoes, infinite shuttles, and able to routinely manufacture 21-meter warp 7 parasite craft. Only things they didn't seem to have an endless supply of was food and rank pips.
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Well, of course they didn't! InfiniteShuttle Technology (TM) is great but it consumes a lot of metal. Metal you therefore cannot use for rank pins anymore! It all makes sense now
!
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They're still routinely mentioned by casual fans, hardcore fans, and even some of the show's writers as the potential Big Bad in any cyber-threat, from Disco to Picard (there were people speculating Control and the ancient tentacle AI from Picard would have something to do with the Borg, and one of the writers —I can't recall which— even thought they were doing the origins of the Borg until that was shot down). And the potential for the Artifact to go wrong and release a new Borg threat was hanging over the entire season, and they might lean heavy on it again this season if the trailers are to be believed.
Whenever people start a thread about "Who do you want to see as the villain next season?" a comeback of the Borg is always somewhere in the running, along with the people saying "Oh, god, no!"
They're still the ultimate baddie in the Lower Decks intro.
They're by far the most recognizable Trek villain (besides arguably Klingons, but they're only occasionally-villainous now) among non-fans and casual fans.
I don't think Voyager totally de-fanged them, and it doesn't take much of a tweak to introduce some new element to their behavior to make them terrifying again. Like, what if instead of assimilating individuals surgically or by injecting them with nanoprobes one at a time, they just launched a bunch of nanoprobe topedoes to fly through the atmosphere of a planet and air drop the nanoprobes en masse into the clouds, oceans, rain and groundwater, and even birds, fish, bees, mosquitos, rats, dogs, cats, etc. become vectors for spreading the nanoprobes to the target species on the planet. You can assimilate a world in a matter of hours.
Plus, since Trek always likes to keep things semi-relevant to modern times, it would touch on our worst fears about the pandemic and plagues. Plus, you could do a kickass Borg zombie episode / movie with people desperately trying to get offworld before they become assimilated.
A ratings ploy for Voyager?
The word 'undine' was not mentioned on VOY at all, therefore, its not canon. ST:Online invented the word 'Undine' for 8472... but the game is not canon.
In regards to who would win in a battle between 8472 and the Borg... well, given the fact the Borg were utterly outmatched by 8472 the first time around, and the Borg never got their hands on the technology VOY developed to fight them, then 8472 would still come out victorious.
Sure, Tuvok was briefly part of the Collective in 'Unimatrix Zero' episode, but we don't know if Tuvok knew the intricate details of how modified Borg tech worked against 8472... the Doctor and 7 of 9 were the main two people onboard with the necessary knowledge.
If the Borg were likely to win against 8472 then Janeway wouldn't have allied herself with them in "Scorpion".
As for the OP question, Memory Alpha, Wikipedia, Google...
I don’t understand why the Borg were so helpless against 8472. They have assimilated countless doctors and scientists. Why couldn’t they use the skills of those assimilated doctors and scientists to do what The Doctor did? Don’t those skills become part of the collective when they are assimilated?
That was strange to me too.
The Borg can clearly create new technology because they have to integrate alien tech into their own to augment themselves.
But I suppose the Borg saw the slow scientific approach to studying how 8472 cells behave as 'primitive'.
They can clearly scan alien technology and adapt to it (as it was shown)... so I'm not sure why they didn't implement a similar technique with 8472 cells.
I guess they just prefer assimilation rather than tedious scanning and observation.
The 'answer' given in the episode Scorpion is this:
However, this can't be entirely accurate. In a later episode we learn that the Borg can do some form of research (even if perhaps only limited). From The Omega Directive:
However, this can't be entirely accurate. In a later episode we learn that the Borg can do some form of research (even if perhaps only limited). From The Omega Directive:
Exactly my point. So what Torres mentioned in Scorpion didn't really mesh with Borg overall capabilities or behavior.
IMHO:
The Borg are a gestalt - a combination of species - and of unintentionally malevolent intent - originating in the Delta quadrant where all the biggest nightmares in the galaxy are said to be - are introduced by name in "Q Who" with fairly solid background info on their immediate use (though without the origin backdrop, apart from distant space). Said backdrop would be partially retconned as early as "The Best of Both Worlds", their very second story, even announced by characters in a key scene as they're as surprised as the audience by this new and contradictory plot twist, where the Borg are not just a biological species given implants at birth and only take technology as they need it (not entirely dissimilar to the Pakleds) but can now also assimilate other species to grow their ranks, though post-TBOBW episodes don't go into much detail on other species and, indeed, even "I, Borg" treats them as a single race in gestalt form rather than multiple species.
Voyager astutely builds on the Collective to gain more life, in exploring more fully a person removed from the Collective. Yes, Voyager drove the Borg into the ground and even insinuated Q was the cause of their showing up in Federation space, despite "The Neutral Zone" setting up the modus operandi of this new species as a precursor to a full reveal. Thankfully the Borg ended up being cybernetic and not gigantic insects...
The Borg do research - mostly in analyzing technology stolen and adapting it into their systems if something useful or new is found, or if the technology gives information to weapons systems in order to adapt quicker. But do they do research for its own sake, like staring into the sun for no reason and discovering it emits heat and then you go blind? As what AtQuark's pointed out, they will - if the objective has enough significant and theoretical potential that no other known species has been able to work on such as the Omega particle. Some prefer the Timex particle, but that's a different argument.
And yet the Borg are just like the Pakleds, only more able to fix their own technology. They don't seem able to use it to create anything new on their own. It's like if you buy an art studio but are still unable to draw a stick figure because your innate strengths and talents aren't in that particular area.
They also invented modular furniture, tasty meatballs, the best massages, ABBA, Ace of Base, and allegedly blonde hair.
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