Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

[1001001]

I beg pardon of the esteemed moderators and hope this ain’t gonna get me in trouble for reviving such an old discussion. But there is really no way to post this without the context of the crazy, historical, anachronistic thread to which it refers, and which includes so many deceased and permabanned members it deserves a plaque of some sort.

The posting rules for the board, pinned at the top of this forum, tell you exactly what you should do: start a new thread with a link to this one for background.

I can see you put a lot of thought into your reply, and I hate to squash that, so I'll give you this one for free. Please don't do it again.

Thanks

 

[aridas sofia]

The posting rules for the board, pinned at the top of this forum, tell you exactly what you should do: start a new thread with a link to this one for background.

I can see you put a lot of thought into your reply, and I hate to squash that, so I'll give you this one for free. Please don't do it again.

Thanks

I appreciate that, not for me but for the benefit of anyone who would get anything out of this. That, after all, is why rules are made to sometimes be broken. I really saw no way to do it other than possibly linking to the old thread, and what difference would that have made.

I will consider this a gift for my 20th year as a member.

 

[BK613]

@aridas sofia You position on the USS Carolina from Friday's Child?

 

[Dukhat]

Also, where in “The Trouble with Tribbles” was the Constitution and her 1700 registry established?

 

[aridas sofia]

Not the 1700 number. At least, not directly. That comes from inference and the fact the technical manuals Scotty is reviewing are shown to be for the Constitution class and Enterprise is 1701. That was the logical inference Greg Jein and Franz Joseph made, and which has stuck.

https://imgur.com/CWbutON

 

[blssdwlf]

Not the 1700 number. At least, not directly. That comes from inference and the fact the technical manuals Scotty is reviewing are shown to be for the Constitution class and Enterprise is 1701. That was the logical inference Greg Jein and Franz Joseph made, and which has stuck.

https://imgur.com/CWbutON

I was going to ask whether "Constitution" was visible in an HD screencap in "The Trouble With Tribbles" but upon checking my DVD the camera angle to the monitor obscures most of the name. Too bad there wasn't a straight on shot of it. Does this graphic show up in any other episodes?

 

[aridas sofia]

It is my understanding that the graphic was adapted by Jefferies for use in “Space Seed”. It wasn’t used in that episode and instead ended up being used in “Tribbles”.

https://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/tribbles/old_scotty_journal.jpg

 

[Warped9]

Man, this was such a cool thread.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Man, this was such a cool thread.

It was interesting to revisit some of James Dixon's insanity.

 

[aridas sofia]

He was certainly a PITA but to the extent fanon ever meant anything, he was your man. He somehow knew more details about the stuff I did than I did.

 

[StarCruiser]

Hmmm...just a sideline random wondering...
Since the FRS is basically dead in the water - what about posting here?

New thread for the 50 for 50?

 

[aridas sofia]

@aridas sofia You position on the USS Carolina from Friday's Child?

I’ve drawn it. A smaller ship based on the idea of the “upside down Enterprise”. That is the fan tradition iirc. Smaller saucer and secondary hull. For those who know my stuff, I think I had it as a Pytheas-class… patrol ship.

 

[BK613]

I’ve drawn it. A smaller ship based on the idea of the “upside down Enterprise”. That is the fan tradition iirc. Smaller saucer and secondary hull. For those who know my stuff, I think I had it as a Pytheas-class… patrol ship.

Fair enough. But not the tradition for every fan. In every other instance on TOS, USS meant Starship; this fan has always thought of the Carolina as one.

 

[Henoch]

Fair enough. But not the tradition for every fan. In every other instance on TOS, USS meant Starship; this fan has always thought of the Carolina as one.

I like to think that the Carolina is a starship, but not the same class as the 5YM Enterprise (and not one the twelve). Same with several of the Star Ship identities on Stone's chart, i.e. the non-1700 ships. I put Stone's list of ships for only those currently, either being repaired at or maybe assigned to, Starbase 11 depending on your interpretation of "% Complete" on the chart. Since Starbase 11 has five of the twelve 1700-class ships, it must be a major Starbase possibly on the frontier, more associated with deep space exploration. Based on my observance of how Starfleet uses the Enterprise, and by reference its other 1700-Class ships by giving them the brunt of the most dangerous missions and assignments, the high number of them being repaired at Starbase doesn't surprise me. By the time of Friday's Child, the Enterprise is traveling between Starbase 10 and 12, so, there'd be a different list of ships for those Starbases in which one is the USS Carolina and maybe its a 1600- or other Class Star Ship.

 

[BK613]

^^Have no issue with it being an older Starship.

 

[aridas sofia]

“Upside down Enterprise” so, yes, a starship. NCC-1402

This gets into a whole separate question than this thread covered, of just what the dedication plaque meant when it said “STAR SHIP CLASS”. Piecing together production materials, we know now that they wanted Enterprise to be a very special ship - only twelve like her. That may be what STAR SHIP means. Not an interstellar ship, or a fully capable military ship, but a ship that can go beyond the frontier. Carolina could be a very dangerous and capable ship but not be meant to go “where no man has gone before”. It’s a starship- not a STAR SHIP.

This is what I mean by fan tradition. The idea that this thing looks like this goes back as far as I can remember. At least some fanzine from the 70s. It derived from a Matt Jefferies sketch that was, iirc, in TMoST, and was the basis for the Pytheas-class that I published in about 1985. I think fan conjecture was that it was, as it says here, Ranger- class. But I never liked the idea of Carolina as a noticeably older ship, thus I came up with Pytheas- named for an ancient Greek who literally DID go where no Greek had gone before (so go figure).

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Carolina_(NCC-1000)

 

[GNDN18]

Piecing together production materials, we know now that they wanted Enterprise to be a very special ship - only twelve like her.

Just so. The record is quite clear:

That may be what STAR SHIP means.

Except that the plaque spells “starship” as one word.

Nevertheless, I think your point stands.

 

[aridas sofia]

Very good, sir. I can’t recall where that distinction comes from then. It is somewhere on something in one of the episodes or in production materials. But yes, that dedication plaque is as you say.

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/50/71/06/10719667/3/1200x0.jpg

EDIT- I recall now- “STAR SHIP” is on the famous Commodore Stone’s chart that is the subject of this thread.

https://i.ibb.co/k6pZ7N9/courtmartialhd011.png

 

[BK613]

Except the USS Carolina is out there in the same sector as the Enterprise...but hey, it's definitely open to interpretation.

 

[GNDN18]

Except the USS Carolina is out there in the same sector as the Enterprise...but hey, it's definitely open to interpretation.

I thought there was a general order stating that Enterprise was always to be the only ship in the quadrant/sector/within range.