Perhaps not, but it is a realistic sentiment.
These Star Trek characters can wax poetically about utopia and evolved sensibilities all they want...but when push comes to absolute shove, I'm with Quark and Lily Sloane:
Quark:
Lily Sloane:
Obsession - Did Kirk Do the Right Thing?
- Thread starter Commishsleer
- Start date
Perhaps not, but it is a realistic sentiment.
These Star Trek characters can wax poetically about utopia and evolved sensibilities all they want...but when push comes to absolute shove, I'm with Quark and Lily Sloane:
Quark:
Lily Sloane:
It was a space vampire.
It must be very difficult to write a completely air-tight story like this. McCoy said the first victims had no red corpuscles left in their blood. Spock was safe because of his copper-based blood. So was the creature after iron? The ship must have iron or iron compounds in it somewhere, yet was unaffected. So that narrows it back down to hemoglobin, which further narrows the creature's feeding ground. How long can it go between feedings? Or was there some other dynamic in the creature's predation where several factors all came together in human blood? (That is, the creature did not need specifically human blood, but found it a tasty distraction?)
The simple answer is that "explaining too much" kills the pace of a story, or prevents it from ever getting off the ground in the first place. Space: 1999 had a very similar story in "Dragon's Domain." Like vampires of old and the creature in "Obsession," the creature can metamorph from one form to another, it feeds on humans (and perhaps other alien life forms), it can sustain for years between feedings, and seems immune to most weapons. The one thing Space: 1999 had in its favor was a "haunted castle in space" atmosphere for such a monster story.
If the thing can attack starships then it’s opportunities aren’t limited to planet bound life forms. Entire ships could have fallen prey to this thing and the ships could be listed as just disappearing without a trace, at least as far as Starfleet is concerned.
Another argument for this creature perhaps being something created by an alien race. It’s supposedly a living creature, unlike anything imaginable in nature, yet it can also cross interstellar distances at high FTL speeds. That is seriously WTF!
Another argument for this creature perhaps being something created by an alien race. It’s supposedly a living creature, unlike anything imaginable in nature, yet it can also cross interstellar distances at high FTL speeds. That is seriously WTF!
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I believe that is the theme Norman Spinrad used for "The Doomsday Machine." Before I heard that, I had always assumed "Doomsday" was inspired by Saberhagen's Berserker stories. Anyway, "Obsession" fits the bill, too.
With a little help from his friends, of course.
It would make an absolutely AWESOME Short Trek or even a 2-hour mini-event to show the series of events that took place that led to the tragedy aboard the Farragut. I know it's been depicted in non-canon a couple of times....but it would make a really cool live-action Trek story.
So you're OK with half of the Farragut crew being killed?
I really could give a crap about "defending its turf". The cloud creature is a dangerous predator and needed to be destroyed at all costs. That's the end of it.
The "why" is irrelevant; all that matters is the what.
People DO matter more.
I mean, if it's a choice of them or us...I vote US!
And it could nicely explain why Kirk was the "stack of books with legs" as Gary Mitchell once described him. Perhaps Kirk returned to the Academy to teach, as a way of dealing with the trauma of the attack on the Farragut.
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People DO matter more.
I mean, if it's a choice of them or us...I vote US!
Yeah, that's why I said I loved it, meaning Kirk's dry-eyed, no soft talk decision to blow up the planet. I wasn't being ironic.
Shouldn't they have tried to talk to the creature? A mind-meld?
The Horta killed 50 people so shouldn't the creature have been given a chance too.
I sort of accept Kirk's (and only Kirk's) that he was in telepathic contact and he knew it was about to breed and was evil and would ravage the universe but Kirk was acting as judge, jury and executioner. I know Spock said it turned but doesn't that mean it was sentient and deserved a chance?
Its funny in the years since the Farrugut no-one had ever heard of it again. I'm sure Starfleet and Kirk would have been looking out for signs. Was it waiting all this time for some human tasty treats to appear?
I suppose in the end we trust Kirk and it wasn't just vengeance he wanted.
The Horta killed 50 people so shouldn't the creature have been given a chance too.
I sort of accept Kirk's (and only Kirk's) that he was in telepathic contact and he knew it was about to breed and was evil and would ravage the universe but Kirk was acting as judge, jury and executioner. I know Spock said it turned but doesn't that mean it was sentient and deserved a chance?
Its funny in the years since the Farrugut no-one had ever heard of it again. I'm sure Starfleet and Kirk would have been looking out for signs. Was it waiting all this time for some human tasty treats to appear?
I suppose in the end we trust Kirk and it wasn't just vengeance he wanted.
Here are several speculations, which are not all consistent with each other.
The planet Tycho IV was supposedly the home of the cloud creature.
I wonder how much time the creature spent on its home, Tycho IV. And did the creature eat while on Tycho IV? Is blood the only thing the creature eats, or is it a rare snack and does it mostly eat something else?
If the vampire cloud fed on blood on Tycho IV, then there must have been blood on Tycho IV. Which means that there must have been multicelled animals with blood and circulatory systems.
So I wonder how much time the Farragut crew had to scan Tycho IV to see whether there was intelligent life on Tycho IV before the disaster with the vampire cloud. I may point out that members of the species Homo sapiens have existed for at least 200,000 years, and other members of genus Homo for at least two million years, and in all that time the first signs of civilization which could be seen from space only appeared a few thousand years ago.
And if the vampire cloud had preyed on large animals, intelligent or otherwise, for years on Tycho IV, how much difference would it have made to the ecosystem of Tycho IV?
Possibly the vampire cloud knew that it would reproduce soon, and that its offspring would be very thirsty at first, so it refrained from hunting on Tycho IV and went to other planets to seek the blood and other nutrients it needed, so there would be plenty of life on Tycho IV when its children were born.
Did Kirk make the right decision to dely the arrive of the medicines on Theta Seven? How many lives would the delay cost? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Millions?
The episode doesn't give any information.
But I can't help thinking that Kirk's decisions which delayed the delivery of the medicines were less justified the earlier in the episode they happened, the less evidence there was to support Kirk's decision.
So I can't help wondering whether Starfleet command gave Kirk a medal for his actions after arriving at Tycho IV, and also had Kirk drummed out of the surface and imprisoned for recklessly endangering civilian lives on Theta Seven by his actions earlier in the episode when there was no rational evidence to support Kirk's actions.
Actions can only be justified by the evidence available at the time they are made, and Kirk's actions earlier in the episode were not justified by the information available at the time.
I sometiems wonder if KIrk and Spock believed Scott was guilty in "Wolf in the Fold" and so created the theory that Jack the Ripper did it and was Mr. Hengist to get Scott off the hook, and created the illusion that the Jack the Ripper entity was taking control of the ship.
And I sometimes wonder if Spock feared that Kirk would be punished for his irrational behavior in "Obession", and so created false sensor readings to make it appear that the vampire cloud was about to spawn and was a menace to the galaxy.
"The Man Trap" has many similarities to the classic "Black Destroyer" (1939) by A.E. van Vogt - also see It! The Terror From Beyond Space (1958), Planet of hte Vampires (1965), Queen of Blood (1966) and Alien (1979).. In "Black Destroyer" Coeurl was one of the people of the fallen civilization on the planet, but when "Black Destroyer" was included in the fix up novel The Voyage of the Space Beagle (1950) it was speculated that Coeurl. could have been an artifical creature created by the biological science of the people of the planet.
And sometimes I wonder whether the salt vampire in "The Man Trap" was one of the natives of the planet or an artifical being created by their biological science. Or maybe the salt vampires were created by outsiders to wipe out the natives and then die from a lack of salt, leaving the planet empty for colonization. And sometimes I wonder if the Klingons were similarly created as bioweapons.
"The Doomsday Machine" was speculated to be a doomsday weapon from a long ago war, like the Berserkers of Fred Saberhagen. And the giant space amoeba in "The Immunity Syndrome" and the vampire cloud in "Obsession" are considered to be naturally evolved beings.
But maybe all three were artificially created by the same beings as weapons to attack the galaxy with.
The planet Tycho IV was supposedly the home of the cloud creature.
I wonder how much time the creature spent on its home, Tycho IV. And did the creature eat while on Tycho IV? Is blood the only thing the creature eats, or is it a rare snack and does it mostly eat something else?
If the vampire cloud fed on blood on Tycho IV, then there must have been blood on Tycho IV. Which means that there must have been multicelled animals with blood and circulatory systems.
So I wonder how much time the Farragut crew had to scan Tycho IV to see whether there was intelligent life on Tycho IV before the disaster with the vampire cloud. I may point out that members of the species Homo sapiens have existed for at least 200,000 years, and other members of genus Homo for at least two million years, and in all that time the first signs of civilization which could be seen from space only appeared a few thousand years ago.
And if the vampire cloud had preyed on large animals, intelligent or otherwise, for years on Tycho IV, how much difference would it have made to the ecosystem of Tycho IV?
Possibly the vampire cloud knew that it would reproduce soon, and that its offspring would be very thirsty at first, so it refrained from hunting on Tycho IV and went to other planets to seek the blood and other nutrients it needed, so there would be plenty of life on Tycho IV when its children were born.
Did Kirk make the right decision to dely the arrive of the medicines on Theta Seven? How many lives would the delay cost? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Millions?
The episode doesn't give any information.
But I can't help thinking that Kirk's decisions which delayed the delivery of the medicines were less justified the earlier in the episode they happened, the less evidence there was to support Kirk's decision.
So I can't help wondering whether Starfleet command gave Kirk a medal for his actions after arriving at Tycho IV, and also had Kirk drummed out of the surface and imprisoned for recklessly endangering civilian lives on Theta Seven by his actions earlier in the episode when there was no rational evidence to support Kirk's actions.
Actions can only be justified by the evidence available at the time they are made, and Kirk's actions earlier in the episode were not justified by the information available at the time.
I sometiems wonder if KIrk and Spock believed Scott was guilty in "Wolf in the Fold" and so created the theory that Jack the Ripper did it and was Mr. Hengist to get Scott off the hook, and created the illusion that the Jack the Ripper entity was taking control of the ship.
And I sometimes wonder if Spock feared that Kirk would be punished for his irrational behavior in "Obession", and so created false sensor readings to make it appear that the vampire cloud was about to spawn and was a menace to the galaxy.
"The Man Trap" has many similarities to the classic "Black Destroyer" (1939) by A.E. van Vogt - also see It! The Terror From Beyond Space (1958), Planet of hte Vampires (1965), Queen of Blood (1966) and Alien (1979).. In "Black Destroyer" Coeurl was one of the people of the fallen civilization on the planet, but when "Black Destroyer" was included in the fix up novel The Voyage of the Space Beagle (1950) it was speculated that Coeurl. could have been an artifical creature created by the biological science of the people of the planet.
And sometimes I wonder whether the salt vampire in "The Man Trap" was one of the natives of the planet or an artifical being created by their biological science. Or maybe the salt vampires were created by outsiders to wipe out the natives and then die from a lack of salt, leaving the planet empty for colonization. And sometimes I wonder if the Klingons were similarly created as bioweapons.
"The Doomsday Machine" was speculated to be a doomsday weapon from a long ago war, like the Berserkers of Fred Saberhagen. And the giant space amoeba in "The Immunity Syndrome" and the vampire cloud in "Obsession" are considered to be naturally evolved beings.
But maybe all three were artificially created by the same beings as weapons to attack the galaxy with.
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There was absolutely no evidence that it was sentient, or even capable of communication.
The difference is, the Horta showed evidence of sentience ("NO KILL I"). This creature did not.
Good.
Being able to change direction is not evidence of sentience.
I think people get a little too caught up in the sport of moral and ethical debate when it comes to Star Trek, because that's what Star Trek claims to do so well.
Ultimately, though...TOS often found Kirk very consistently and decisively working to eliminate any threats to the broader Federation population or his crew. They worked to destroy the Deneva parasite creatures, who were obviously sentient and deadly. They killed the M-113 Salt Vampire, even though it was the last of its kind. They pursued the Gorn and Romulan ships who had attacked Federation outposts, with the intent to destroy them.
TOS wasn't playing morality games like TNG may have. Kirk wasn't going to have a drink of tea and think deeply about the morality of wiping out a lifeform that, if you failed to do so, might turn around and wipe you out instead.
Frankly, the Kirk approach is the more realistic and pragmatic approach. He often showed mercy to kindred rivals and opponents on the field of battle, but if he felt you were an existential threat to the crew or (certainly) the galaxy at large...there was no screwing around. It was "act and act decisively to save lives." That's it. It's one of the reasons I favor Kirk as a captain above the others. I just don't think it's realistic, despite all the blathering done by characters in the franchise about "evolved human sensibilities," to think about the rights of a lifeform to exist when that lifeform has demonstrated the willingness and ability to fuck your shit up. No sir, arm phasers and photon torpedoes and let's make sure we take our opportunity RIGHT NOW to protect the crew and the lives of Federation Citizens. Let history judge that action later. But, as a starship captain, you ACT.
I think fans (as usual) get too caught up in the Preachy Trek myth about how wonderful and enlightened everyone will be in the future and love to pick these kinds of things apart. When, in reality, it's so grossly unrealistic to think that any other choice would be acceptable.
#NecheyevWasRight
#ImWithBooker
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I'll ignore the "killing is practical" thing as we've done that dance before, but...
They were?
They were?
They were "sentient" in the sense that it is usually used IRL (capable of responding to sensation), but not AFAIK "sentient" in the sense that Star Trek usually uses it (have human-like intelligence, self awareness and consciousness per Measure of a Man), which is typically referred to as sapience AFAIK.
