Spoilers Eve of the Daleks grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
Sarah was gasLit by timeloop.
Promo images for the next special
Wow! That was fun and intense! I really enjoyed it! I gave it a 9. I'd say that was the best episode of the Chibnall/Whittaker era. Great blend of action and comedy.
The Yaz/Doctor stuff leaves me cold. It really hasn't been developed before now. It doesn't have time to go anywhere. I thought they were actually going to kiss beneath the fireworks in the New Year's Eve tradition. At least that would've been noteworthy. As it was, the Doctor shrugged it off in a childish way. The way Dan broached it earlier was also in schoolboy way. Really no emotional depth there.
Also, the Flux storyline is swept under the carpet. Sure, they mentioned the need to reset the TARDIS and the Daleks used it as a reason to kill the Doctor. But that's window dressing. The Daleks always want to kill the Doctor. The universe wide destruction and the larger issues surrounding Division were nowhere to be seen.
Speaking of killing the Doctor, if they were serious about that, why not send in a large squad? Or simply destroy the entire building? If fireworks could bring down the building, certainly Daleks could find a way!
But I'm going focus on the fun part! Very nice special! It was a fun ride!
The Yaz/Doctor stuff leaves me cold. It really hasn't been developed before now. It doesn't have time to go anywhere. I thought they were actually going to kiss beneath the fireworks in the New Year's Eve tradition. At least that would've been noteworthy. As it was, the Doctor shrugged it off in a childish way. The way Dan broached it earlier was also in schoolboy way. Really no emotional depth there.
Also, the Flux storyline is swept under the carpet. Sure, they mentioned the need to reset the TARDIS and the Daleks used it as a reason to kill the Doctor. But that's window dressing. The Daleks always want to kill the Doctor. The universe wide destruction and the larger issues surrounding Division were nowhere to be seen.
Speaking of killing the Doctor, if they were serious about that, why not send in a large squad? Or simply destroy the entire building? If fireworks could bring down the building, certainly Daleks could find a way!
But I'm going focus on the fun part! Very nice special! It was a fun ride!
I can't shake this feeling that it will be addressed just as the Doctor will have to regenerate.
I suspect you're correct, which really diminishes it.
The episode was fun, but it's the same sort of narrative pyrotechnics Chibnall's been most effective at using. Everythings fine when it's just, run around, duck, explosion, shock, cry, dodge, rush, rush, rush, but it's always so messy outside of that. I was able to turn my brain off and go along for the ride, but I'm usually really good with time-travel logic, and the first few loops, it was bothering me that a writer as disdainful of structural homework as Chibnall was really half-assing a kind of plot where structure is absolutely key. A time-loop story is a narrative escape room, you aren't supposed to keep adding and subtracting stuff, you're just recombining everything you had in the first loop with the only change being the characters' knowledge.
By the second loop, I already had no idea when events were happening in relationship to each other, it already felt like way too much stuff was being crammed into eight minutes, the mom's phone call always seemed to be at a different time, and Chibnall clearly didn't give thought one to the question of what it would mean for the loop to be getting shorter every time, since everyone was just reappearing where they had been at nine minutes to midnight, except after the first loop, where Nick started showing up at his storage unit (but it's not where they were at that time the first time around, because the Fam always showed up at the TARDIS). If the Daleks can call in more Daleks from outside the loop, why don't they just bring them all in at once? Were there three Daleks, or five? How do they know the loop resets at midnight, they're all already dead before midnight, and the one time it looked like they might just reach the end of the line, they were killed anyway, keeping them from knowing the rule. For all they knew, it was an Edge of Tomorrow thing, and the loop would last until they died no matter what.
On a character note, I feel like Yaz's feelings towards the Doctor would come to a more interesting head if this era of the show was more concerned with what's happened the 2000s and 2010s than it was in continuing the Doctor Who of the 1970s. Also, Nick was played way, way too far over into "weird" in the first half of the episode for his viability as a romantic partner and not a strange hermit to feel earned. Or, for that matter, for him to be a total ladykiller while also hung up on a woman he ran into once at a self-storage whose schedule he was able to deduce from what must've been very limited information about her business partner.
By the second loop, I already had no idea when events were happening in relationship to each other, it already felt like way too much stuff was being crammed into eight minutes, the mom's phone call always seemed to be at a different time, and Chibnall clearly didn't give thought one to the question of what it would mean for the loop to be getting shorter every time, since everyone was just reappearing where they had been at nine minutes to midnight, except after the first loop, where Nick started showing up at his storage unit (but it's not where they were at that time the first time around, because the Fam always showed up at the TARDIS). If the Daleks can call in more Daleks from outside the loop, why don't they just bring them all in at once? Were there three Daleks, or five? How do they know the loop resets at midnight, they're all already dead before midnight, and the one time it looked like they might just reach the end of the line, they were killed anyway, keeping them from knowing the rule. For all they knew, it was an Edge of Tomorrow thing, and the loop would last until they died no matter what.
On a character note, I feel like Yaz's feelings towards the Doctor would come to a more interesting head if this era of the show was more concerned with what's happened the 2000s and 2010s than it was in continuing the Doctor Who of the 1970s. Also, Nick was played way, way too far over into "weird" in the first half of the episode for his viability as a romantic partner and not a strange hermit to feel earned. Or, for that matter, for him to be a total ladykiller while also hung up on a woman he ran into once at a self-storage whose schedule he was able to deduce from what must've been very limited information about her business partner.
Last edited:
Spot on. It didn't feel so much like a trapped-in-a-time-loop story as a race-against-time-while-trapped-in-a-building story.
Fun for what it is, a disposable standalone story. Not much more to say about this one, though Chibnall did seem to be a bit more on the ball writing this one than he was the majority of the Flux. Although, so those mysterious doors in the Console Room in Flux are now done away with courtesy of the reset the TARDIS underwent in this episode? Eh, whatever.
Bring on Legend of the Sea Devils. That looks like it's going to be my jam!
Bring on Legend of the Sea Devils. That looks like it's going to be my jam!
Along with everything else that happened with the flux...
Wow, those are gorgeous! I was hoping more focus on the seafaring aspect but it still looks like it'll be a lot of fun.Promo images for the next special
I enjoyed this, however I couldn't stand Sarah. While we can go into Nick's behavior, Sarah's behavior was pretty terrible to everyone throughout. Feels like this was a quick redemption "arc" for her that wasn't earned.
I also just tried to ignore the logic of the time loopers and where and when people ended up. Glad that Dan mentioned Groundhog Day - pretty much every time loop story now need to mention the film.
I guess reseting the TARDIS keeps the current version of the interiors instead of taking it back to version 1.0 (the first Doctor's TARDIS interior).
I also just tried to ignore the logic of the time loopers and where and when people ended up. Glad that Dan mentioned Groundhog Day - pretty much every time loop story now need to mention the film.
I guess reseting the TARDIS keeps the current version of the interiors instead of taking it back to version 1.0 (the first Doctor's TARDIS interior).
This was Chibnall's best Dalek story, but did it really need all the "What's a Dalek?" moments? They were everywhere in the last special, are these characters all so forgetful that they can't remember what happened the previous year?
I don't understand the Yaz/Doctor attraction. Yaz has almost no personality and the Doctor has treated her pretty badly this past season. Not only that, but they spent years apart.
I'd wondered if the guy at the end was going to be a significant character in one of the upcoming specials. I'm not sure what the point of including him was if most of the audience will have forgotten him and he wasn't part of this plot.
I don't understand the Yaz/Doctor attraction. Yaz has almost no personality and the Doctor has treated her pretty badly this past season. Not only that, but they spent years apart.
I'd wondered if the guy at the end was going to be a significant character in one of the upcoming specials. I'm not sure what the point of including him was if most of the audience will have forgotten him and he wasn't part of this plot.
Surprisingly enjoyable considering that it features - yet again - the insufferable bloody Daleks, but I suspect that if I apply much thought to it the episode will fall in a heap. I certainly can't imagine it standing up to repeat viewings (as opposed to "The Husbands of River Song", which I rewatched for the umpteenth time this arvo and enjoyed the hell out of all over again). It was fun and there were some good moments, but...yeah. Nick was okay but I found Sarah rather bitchy and unlikeable. Each to their own, though.
Now that I've been working on this post and absorbing other opinions, my impressions of the episode are heading downhill. Oh, well.
Edit: So there are still frelling Daleks around (and presumably bloody Cybermen and Sontarans, too), but I suppose the Lupari are completely wiped out? Not sure how that's supposed to work, but whatever. Really shouldn't have started thinking about this episode.
This. Yaz has received zero character development and now she's being further reduced to a Martha-esque "I wuv her" pseudo-person. Given how much I want to like Yaz (Mandip Gill somehow manages to do quite a bit with almost nothing) and how much I detested Martha, that doesn't represent anything resembling a good thing.
Agreed. I seem to recall Yaz's mum making some remark about her and the Doctor (been too long since I saw the episode but I'm sure someone will fill in the blanks for me), but given Yaz's total lack of character development before or since - and the fact there's no time to take any potential relationship anywhere - it all seems completely pointless. Reducing it to some last-moment-before-regeneration thing would (somehow) be even more pathetic.
Yep. No comment about the universe being all but destroyed, nothing about the (quite underwhelming and uninteresting) Division. Just the Daleks wanting to kill the Doctor. So what else is new? When haven't they wanted to kill the Doctor and everyone the Doctor cares about?
Now that I've been working on this post and absorbing other opinions, my impressions of the episode are heading downhill. Oh, well.
I caught that. The significance hit me a bit later.
Edit: So there are still frelling Daleks around (and presumably bloody Cybermen and Sontarans, too), but I suppose the Lupari are completely wiped out? Not sure how that's supposed to work, but whatever. Really shouldn't have started thinking about this episode.
Last edited:
I guess it was just me but I found this decidedly 'meh'. So many other people have done time loop stories so much better. (Looking at you, SG1).
There was zero explanation. Why were they in a time loop? How far did it extend? (they seemed to assume/know it was just that building... but was it?) Did the rest of the world go on without them? If so their fireworks were late. If not, was everyone else living those 9 minutes over and over? And why a shortening time loop? What the hell was going on?
How did the daleks get there? Where were the rest of the fleet? How many were there? When did the daleks ever not send the entire fleet against the doctor?
Aisling Bea was fun. But as others have said, she's no actor. This was her regular stage persona, with a fake name. The storing bloke was creepy in a stalkerish, serial killer sort of way. I'd have wanted to get as far away from him as possible. Thus implying Bea was just desperate and only waiting for a man to come and rescue her.
That speech. Hell even I don't sermonise that badly. It was heavy, preachy and patronising.
And I don't like this business of companions falling in love with the doctor. It's such a cop out. There are so many possible feelings and relationships why must the writers always fall back on the 'in wuv' thing? Look at the range of relationships the doctor used to have with companions. So much richer and varied.
Sorry. This one wasn't for me.
There was zero explanation. Why were they in a time loop? How far did it extend? (they seemed to assume/know it was just that building... but was it?) Did the rest of the world go on without them? If so their fireworks were late. If not, was everyone else living those 9 minutes over and over? And why a shortening time loop? What the hell was going on?
How did the daleks get there? Where were the rest of the fleet? How many were there? When did the daleks ever not send the entire fleet against the doctor?
Aisling Bea was fun. But as others have said, she's no actor. This was her regular stage persona, with a fake name. The storing bloke was creepy in a stalkerish, serial killer sort of way. I'd have wanted to get as far away from him as possible. Thus implying Bea was just desperate and only waiting for a man to come and rescue her.
That speech. Hell even I don't sermonise that badly. It was heavy, preachy and patronising.
And I don't like this business of companions falling in love with the doctor. It's such a cop out. There are so many possible feelings and relationships why must the writers always fall back on the 'in wuv' thing? Look at the range of relationships the doctor used to have with companions. So much richer and varied.
Sorry. This one wasn't for me.
Last edited:
So is it safe to assume at this point that the damage from the Flux has not been undone and most of the universe is just gone?
I couldn't agree more with this.
I'm pretty sure the main reason I like the Doctor / River so much is because Alex Kingston was so brilliant in the role (the fact she's also a Pertwee person is merely a bonus). Otherwise, the other 'ships / potential 'ships have left me cold. (The fact I find 'shipping in general - with a handful of exceptions - pretty ridiculous doesn't help.) Rose went from an actual person to a simpering idiot. Martha was a non-person who spent most of her time whining that the Doctor didn't love her. Clara was monumentally self-centred and selfish beyond belief. Now Yaz. At least Donna bucked the trend but her reward was to be completely mind-wiped. It's a really, really poor record. Each to their own but IMO classic Who was much more interesting and diverse where Doctor / companion relationships were concerned (and in many other ways besides...but that's another matter).
Edited for clarity.
Last edited:
Getting any sort of acting out of a beach is good going.
Sorry... autocorrect bit me.
Beeches are even worse, they’re totally wooden