What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The show could potentially tie into Prodigy and how SF/UFP used the Dyson Sphere to create/contain/shrink a Protostar and make it usable for TransWarp.

I'd like to think that the UFP / SF didn't need the Dyson Sphere to create the ProtoStar Reactor.

In fact, it was the overall knowledge of Star Formation & management that allowed them to create both the ProtoStar Reactor and stabilize the star within the Dyson Sphere.

 

[eschaton]

Star Trek: Dyson Sphere

Talk about the ultimate Space Station, it's the Dyson Sphere that JLP & Scotty found, turn that into a new UFP / StarFleet managed Space Station and the drama around it.

Imagine trying to be the upper management of the newly renovated Dyson Sphere.

I love the idea of exploring a Dyson Sphere, because you never know what you're going to find. I feel like managing it is impossible though. You're talking about a surface area approximately 550 million times the surface area of Earth - which means there's more inhabitable space by far than every single habitable planet in the Federation. Even with the possibility of rapid transit via transporter, you could have billions of staff with each still solely responsible for territory equal to a single continent.

 

[Vale]

I love the idea of exploring a Dyson Sphere, because you never know what you're going to find. I feel like managing it is impossible though. You're talking about a surface area approximately 550 million times the surface area of Earth - which means there's more inhabitable space by far than every single habitable planet in the Federation. Even with the possibility of rapid transit via transporter, you could have billions of staff with each still solely responsible for territory equal to a single continent.

The scale of a Dyson sphere (technically a Dyson shell if we're talking about the one in TNG: "Relics") would be hard to adequately convey on a TV show. The one in TNG had a diameter of 200 million km and a surface area of 1.3e17km – over 250 million times the surface area of Earth.

According to McCoy in TOS: "Balance of Terror", there are an estimated three million "Earth-type" planets in the Milky Way. (Our current estimates put this as a substantially higher six billion, but in context we might assume McCoy is talking specifically about planets that have intelligent life, rather than any generic class M planet). Which means the Dyson Sphere we saw in "Relics" has about eighty times the surface area of every inhabited planet in the entire Milky Way galaxy COMBINED.

Not just the Federation. Everything. Every planet we've ever seen. You could put the entire population of the galaxy – Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Ferengi, Dominion, Borg, all those Delta Quadrant aliens of the week – in one Dyson Sphere, and they'd still have eighty times the living area they do now. And it's quite small as far as Dyson spheres go – one the diameter of Earth's orbit would have over twice the habitable area!

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Not just the Federation. Everything. Every planet we've ever seen. You could put the entire population of the galaxy – Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Ferengi, Dominion, Borg, all those Delta Quadrant aliens of the week – in one Dyson Sphere, and they'd still have eighty times the living area they do now. And it's quite small as far as Dyson spheres go – one the diameter of Earth's orbit would have over twice the habitable area!

That's why I think there's no point in making a new Dyson Sphere, when you can renovate the existing Dyson Sphere.

The UFP was the first to find the Dyson Sphere, nobody else is living in/on it anymore.

UFP can claim ownership and terraform the entire Dyson Sphere via Automation.

 

[Deks]

I'd like to think that the UFP / SF didn't need the Dyson Sphere to create the ProtoStar Reactor.

In fact, it was the overall knowledge of Star Formation & management that allowed them to create both the ProtoStar Reactor and stabilize the star within the Dyson Sphere.

Agreed.
I was just suggesting it as a possible tie-in to be used as a setting only.

Its a good way away from local UFP core worlds and would allow more free ground for research with abundance of energy that's already radiating from the star (nothing specifically to do with using the actual technology of the Dyson Sphere itself to make the Protostar engine).

 

[Vger23]

That's why I think there's no point in making a new Dyson Sphere, when you can renovate the existing Dyson Sphere.

The UFP was the first to find the Dyson Sphere, nobody else is living in/on it anymore.

UFP can claim ownership and terraform the entire Dyson Sphere via Automation.

Wasn’t the reason that there is no longer a population there given that the star the sphere is built around is unstable?

 

[1001001]

Wasn’t the reason that there is no longer a population there given that the star the sphere is built around is unstable?

Yes.

 

[Orphalesion]

Yeah, and it's not like there's any reason for that Dyson sphere to be unique in the whole Star Trek galaxy, or even in the Alpha/Beta quadrants. Star Trek has the remnants of several long-lost civilizations lying around, why not add one more for the sake of a creative and interesting idea, as a show centred around the exploration of a Dyson Sphere would be.

 

[Vger23]

Where would someone get all of the raw materials to build such a structure? If it has the surface area of that many worlds….it seems massively unrealistic that something like this could be built.

 

[Orphalesion]

Where would someone get all of the raw materials to build such a structure? If it has the surface area of that many worlds….it seems massively unrealistic that something like this could be built.

Yeah almost as unrealistic as alien-human hybrids and aliens with god-like powers eh?

In serious mode, well once a civilization has the power to build a Dyson sphere, then it has the power to mine whole star systems to get the materials. That being said I have read estimates where raw materials form the asteroid belt and the inner planets would be used to build said sphere.

 

[1001001]

Even Dyson himself said the shell idea was absurd, and he wished it wasn’t named after him.

He proposed rings or swarms around a star.

 

[Orphalesion]

Even Dyson himself said the shell idea was absurd, and he wished it wasn’t named after him.

He proposed rings or swarms around a star.

That is true, but again, it's far from the only absurd or unrealistic element in Star Trek, and if it would lead to good stories, wouldn't that be all that's important?

 

[fireproof78]

Where would someone get all of the raw materials to build such a structure? If it has the surface area of that many worlds….it seems massively unrealistic that something like this could be built.

And also nearly unfathomable as an audience member. It's an odd line for me given this franchise but I find the sphere to be too much.

 

[1001001]

And also nearly unfathomable as an audience member. It's an odd line for me given this franchise but I find the sphere to be too much.

We all draw the "suspension of disbelief" line somewhere...

 

[UssGlenn]

Where would someone get all of the raw materials to build such a structure? If it has the surface area of that many worlds….it seems massively unrealistic that something like this could be built.

If you had a replicator that actually did make matter from energy, (rather than just reorganizing the matter supply in the tank), then at least you wouldn't have to mine anything.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Dyson Sphere: Death Stars for people who know how to take it up a notch.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Wasn’t the reason that there is no longer a population there given that the star the sphere is built around is unstable?

That might've been their initial conclusions, given cursory inspection of the Dyson Sphere.

But who knows, maybe the species was killed off by outside factors and the Star became unstable because there wasn't anybody around to maintain said Star or somebody else from the outside intentionally messed with the Star.

There's too many unknown factors when it comes to what happened to the previous occupants of the Dyson Sphere.

 

[Vale]

Where would someone get all of the raw materials to build such a structure? If it has the surface area of that many worlds….it seems massively unrealistic that something like this could be built.

Depends how thick the hull is. It need be only extremely thin compared to its overall diameter. The assumption is that you'd dismantle an entire solar system to make a Dyson sphere. And yes, that would take quite a long time, but if you're in the position to build one then this is likely not a big issue.

The total mass of all the planets, major moons, asteroids etc in our solar system – everything apart from the sun – is approximately 2.8e27kg. Assuming this mass distributed evenly across a perfectly spherical shell of a uniform density equivalent to that of Earth, the "Relics" Dyson sphere – diameter of 200 million km – would have a shell approximately 10m thick.

You could also do "star-lifting" to remove material from the parent star. As smaller stars burn through fuel more slowly this would actually increase its lifespan, while decreasing its energy output – but also remember that the total mass of our sun is about 710 times the combined mass of the rest of the solar system, so there's plenty of spare material to be had to bulk out your shell if you think it's too thin.

The bigger issues with a shell-style Dyson sphere are more to do with what happens after you build it.

Firstly – the net gravitational attraction of the central star and the shell is zero, which means the shell may drift over time – the star will not automatically remain centred. Ultimately without the ability to correct this the star will ultimately collide with the shell, destroying it.

Secondly – without magic Star Trek gravity technology the only way to generate gravity inside the Dyson shell will be by spinning it. Which means only a narrow equatorial band will be habitable – the rest of the shell will be too "steep" or have too little gravity to be useful. (This is where Niven got his idea of Ringworld from – it's basically a Dyson shell with the uninhabitable bits north and south of the equator removed.)

 

[Vale]

Agreed.
I was just suggesting it as a possible tie-in to be used as a setting only.

Its a good way away from local UFP core worlds and would allow more free ground for research with abundance of energy that's already radiating from the star (nothing specifically to do with using the actual technology of the Dyson Sphere itself to make the Protostar engine).

If Discovery really wanted to shake up the setting in the 32nd century, the entire galaxy taking refuge in a Dyson sphere to escape the Burn would have been a good way to do it. Have the spore drive be the only way to get in and out of the sphere, and the entire population, while technologically advanced, believe that there is no "outside" and the galaxy is a myth; or be terrified of letting the Burn in, or whatever. Hmm. I feel a fanfic coming on.

 

[eschaton]

Where would someone get all of the raw materials to build such a structure? If it has the surface area of that many worlds….it seems massively unrealistic that something like this could be built.

Iirc you'd need around 30 earth masses of material for a thin shell at 1 AU, so it's doable if you disassemble gas giants and have matter transformation tech - which clearly exists in the Trekverse.