Spoilers The Flash - Season 8 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter thribs
- Start date
A smaller finale than I expected, more of an epilogue, with only one guest hero. I'm disappointed that Ryan Choi taking over as Atom is something that only happened in an erased timeline -- no way to know if or when it'll happen for real.
The main plot over what to do with Thawne was okay, and I loved Joe reading his kids the riot act. It's not about what the bad guy has done, it's about who you are, and being a protector means protecting everyone, not just the people you like. Although really, it feels like they made it a bigger dilemma than it really was, because surely depowering Thawne removes the threat, as they ultimately concluded. (Well, at least until he finds a way to get his powers back, which is inevitable if the series continues long enough.)
I didn't quite understand what Damien was trying to save Nora from. She was fine the last we saw of her. They seemed to be implying that his presence in the restored timeline kept Nora from existing in it, that he'd taken her place, sort of like the two Zaris in Legends being unable to exist in the same timeline. But why would that be the case? I guess because she was dead in Damien's timeline? But that doesn't add up. Just restoring the timeline would've been enough to bring her back. I guess Arrowverse temporal physics never do make much sense, but it's been particularly random in "Armageddon."
Also, it seemed like Barry just trusting Damien with the Time Stone was not a great idea, considering that he came from a timeline where he was still a supervillain.
So... cliffhanger with Bart and Nora (West-Allen, not Darhk) showing up in a CCPD photo from 2014. I should've known that the dialogue mentions of those two frequently visiting Barry and Iris were setup for something.
The main plot over what to do with Thawne was okay, and I loved Joe reading his kids the riot act. It's not about what the bad guy has done, it's about who you are, and being a protector means protecting everyone, not just the people you like. Although really, it feels like they made it a bigger dilemma than it really was, because surely depowering Thawne removes the threat, as they ultimately concluded. (Well, at least until he finds a way to get his powers back, which is inevitable if the series continues long enough.)
I didn't quite understand what Damien was trying to save Nora from. She was fine the last we saw of her. They seemed to be implying that his presence in the restored timeline kept Nora from existing in it, that he'd taken her place, sort of like the two Zaris in Legends being unable to exist in the same timeline. But why would that be the case? I guess because she was dead in Damien's timeline? But that doesn't add up. Just restoring the timeline would've been enough to bring her back. I guess Arrowverse temporal physics never do make much sense, but it's been particularly random in "Armageddon."
Also, it seemed like Barry just trusting Damien with the Time Stone was not a great idea, considering that he came from a timeline where he was still a supervillain.
So... cliffhanger with Bart and Nora (West-Allen, not Darhk) showing up in a CCPD photo from 2014. I should've known that the dialogue mentions of those two frequently visiting Barry and Iris were setup for something.
I have to turn the tv off when it gets too hot.
Media on my phone.
"Eli Stone"
Musical where lawyer thinks that he is a prophet of god.
Dum de dum.
"Oh, I completely forgot that Tom Cavanagh played Eli Stones daddy."
Dum de dum.
"And there' Supergirl's evil Aunty as his girlfriend."
Dum de dum.
"And his skeevy father in law is Professor Stien from Legends."
Dum de dum.
"And Matt Letscher play's Eli Stone's brother... Wait a fricking second!??"
"The Reverse Flash is his own Father!?"
"How delightfully inbred."
"Oh."
"A Greg Berlanti Production."
"Doh!"
Media on my phone.
"Eli Stone"
Musical where lawyer thinks that he is a prophet of god.
Dum de dum.
"Oh, I completely forgot that Tom Cavanagh played Eli Stones daddy."
Dum de dum.
"And there' Supergirl's evil Aunty as his girlfriend."
Dum de dum.
"And his skeevy father in law is Professor Stien from Legends."
Dum de dum.
"And Matt Letscher play's Eli Stone's brother... Wait a fricking second!??"
"The Reverse Flash is his own Father!?"
"How delightfully inbred."
"Oh."
"A Greg Berlanti Production."
"Doh!"
I didn’t like Damien Darhk that much in season 4 of Arrow, but since then his character has been used much better (on Arrow and the other shows), and his appearance in this episode and the last one has only cemented his inclusion on the best characters of the Arrowverse list.
I liked this episode but not as much as the 2 previous. Was definitely more of an epilogue of the Armageddon storyline, but nothing wrong with that. Got some nice moments with all the characters and a good ethical dilemma with Reverse Flash.
I also wonder if we will be seeing more of Mia Smoak’s story later in the season or maybe on different shows (similar to Diggle’s appearances last season).
Overall, season 8 of the Flash is off to a great start and I hope it continues to be great in the second half of the season. On a positive note, no matter how bad it is in the second half, it’s already better than season 7.
I liked this episode but not as much as the 2 previous. Was definitely more of an epilogue of the Armageddon storyline, but nothing wrong with that. Got some nice moments with all the characters and a good ethical dilemma with Reverse Flash.
I also wonder if we will be seeing more of Mia Smoak’s story later in the season or maybe on different shows (similar to Diggle’s appearances last season).
Overall, season 8 of the Flash is off to a great start and I hope it continues to be great in the second half of the season. On a positive note, no matter how bad it is in the second half, it’s already better than season 7.
I feel like I saw some flashes (no pun intended) of season 7 Flash with this conclusion, and that's not a compliment. It's been so long since I have seen early Flash episodes so maybe I'm wrong but I thought Joe came across as extremely over the top. He's going to disown Barry and Iris if they allow Thawne to die? After everything Thawne has done? I'm actually glad they gave Thawne something worse than death though, suffering and torture. Sometimes death really is the easy way out.
My favorite scene was the scene with Thawne and Caitlin. This was the best acting Panabaker was allowed to do as Caitlin in a long long time. Everything about that scene was tense and almost tragic, and considering the timeline Shenanigans and talking about Ronnie, and news that Amell is returning, I hope Caitlin gets a great arc in the next half. If this is a final season then I want to see her in a good place, both as a professional and In a relationship.
Overall it was a decent end to a great event. Hopefully they keep it up next year.
My favorite scene was the scene with Thawne and Caitlin. This was the best acting Panabaker was allowed to do as Caitlin in a long long time. Everything about that scene was tense and almost tragic, and considering the timeline Shenanigans and talking about Ronnie, and news that Amell is returning, I hope Caitlin gets a great arc in the next half. If this is a final season then I want to see her in a good place, both as a professional and In a relationship.
Overall it was a decent end to a great event. Hopefully they keep it up next year.
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It feels like the show’s writers are starting to addressmmany of the problems I have had in recent years. Which is great.
It’s understandable now why they downplayed this as a full crossover. This was very much a Flash story. But a Flash story that exists in the larger Arrowverse. With the type of guest appearances that were more common in early seasons.
I loved the visual of Thawne phasing in and out of existence. They have done it before but never exactly like this. The visuals of course are inspired by Back to the Future and a lot of movies and tv shows have copied it. Director Robert Zemeckis was never satisfied with Marty’s hand fading shot. The science makes no sense but this is the first time anyone has got the visual right. Not just the hand but brief random fades at various parts of the body. Almost like rain drops causing ripples on a water surface. They make a change and disappear.
It’s understandable now why they downplayed this as a full crossover. This was very much a Flash story. But a Flash story that exists in the larger Arrowverse. With the type of guest appearances that were more common in early seasons.
I loved the visual of Thawne phasing in and out of existence. They have done it before but never exactly like this. The visuals of course are inspired by Back to the Future and a lot of movies and tv shows have copied it. Director Robert Zemeckis was never satisfied with Marty’s hand fading shot. The science makes no sense but this is the first time anyone has got the visual right. Not just the hand but brief random fades at various parts of the body. Almost like rain drops causing ripples on a water surface. They make a change and disappear.
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My problem with those kinds of "fading out" shots is that they're so 2-dimensional, clearly just a flat image with parts removed. If a 3D person were having parts selectively fade like that, you wouldn't just see the background, you'd see their exposed internal organs or something. I've always had the same problem with depicting ghosts or "out of phase" people or the like as translucent -- wouldn't you see their insides through their skin?
Of course, the whole thing is ridiculous anyway. If history were changed so you never existed, that change would've happened already in the past. It wouldn't "catch up" with the present. Although I guess the conceit is that speedsters have an unusual relationship with time. They even alluded to how Thawne inexplicably returned to life after his ancestor Eddie was killed. They didn't explain it, just said "somehow," but at least they finally acknowledged that it's weird.
I don't personally subscribe the idea that the Flash is morally obligated to save the Reverse Flash from being erased from the timeline, but I'm willing to accept that the characters feel that way.
That being said...Team Flash had to know Thawne would hate having his speed removed. Somebody should have taken the time during the Flash/Despero battle to explain to Thawne the situation and give Thawne the choice whether or not to accept that type of help. That would have (safely for Team Flash) given Thawne agency over his own life, provided the possibility that Thawne would choose to let himself die while removing the moral concerns about letting him die (unless the characters are also morally opposed to terminally ill patients rejecting treatment), and avoided Thawne feeling he has to further get revenge on the whole group (rather than just Barry) for taking away his speed.
That being said...Team Flash had to know Thawne would hate having his speed removed. Somebody should have taken the time during the Flash/Despero battle to explain to Thawne the situation and give Thawne the choice whether or not to accept that type of help. That would have (safely for Team Flash) given Thawne agency over his own life, provided the possibility that Thawne would choose to let himself die while removing the moral concerns about letting him die (unless the characters are also morally opposed to terminally ill patients rejecting treatment), and avoided Thawne feeling he has to further get revenge on the whole group (rather than just Barry) for taking away his speed.
Oh, good point. It was inconsistent not to address that. Although it would've added a whole other moral dilemma on top of the other one they were wrestling with.
Decent conclusion to an overall decent "event." Best scene was Joe ripping his kids a new one. Back when I was watching The Flash regularly, I always thought Joe was the real heart of the show, and Martin always brings it.
He does always elevate the show in his scenes. It's a shame there are so few of them these days. He tends to just come in for one scene to deliver some sage advice or commentary.
I don't care where, but I'd really like them to do it *somewhere*. It's been hanging too long.
Was anyone else reminded of the end of The Shining?
Agreed. They didn't even have to be nice! "We found one way to save your life, and it's to remove your speed. Pick. We don't really care which."
I don't remember it.
Considering that Thawne is very intelligent and knows a lot about time travel and the Speed Force, it seems to me likely that he already knew or at least suspected that losing his speed was the only way to save his life before Team Flash told him.
I agree. I bet Thawne had already arrived at the "losing speed force" solution and rejected it as a possibility.
Maybe. But now that we know why he hates Barry, Thawne is shown to be incredibly petty and egotitistical, which blinds him to a lot. He has a major Persecution Complex.
I just read Thawne's various comic origins on Wikipedia and wow, they are DARK. The Arrowverse was definitely inspired by them IMO.
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I finally got caught up last week, and I really enjoyed the whole Armegeddon story. There were some nice twists and turns along the way, and I had managed to avoid spoilers, so the reveal that Thawne was behind everything was a big surprise. Taking away his speed was a nice way to deal with him, while still leaving it open enough for him to come back if they want him to.
Have they explained anywhere why they've gone back to Tom Cavanagh playing him instead of Matt Letscher?
It seemed like they had been pretty consistently sticking with Letscher, but now he's suddenly been back to Cavanagh his last few appearances.
The episode in the alternate world with Barry and Thawne's role's flipped was my favorite.
I'm a big fan of Neal McDonough, so I'm always happy whenever Dahrk shows up, especially post-Legends Dahrk, because he got some great development there.
Have they explained anywhere why they've gone back to Tom Cavanagh playing him instead of Matt Letscher?
It seemed like they had been pretty consistently sticking with Letscher, but now he's suddenly been back to Cavanagh his last few appearances.
The episode in the alternate world with Barry and Thawne's role's flipped was my favorite.
I'm a big fan of Neal McDonough, so I'm always happy whenever Dahrk shows up, especially post-Legends Dahrk, because he got some great development there.
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