Well, whether it's 'reasonable and legitimate' or 'piling on hate', the writer of Starkers' link above was apparently so worked up he came back for seconds.
Spoilers The Vanquishers grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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Well fair enough. I didn't attack him directly but I did feel this whole season was disappointing. None of the acting was bad, that side of it was excellent just the story was disjointed and disappointing.
When I was editing InVision, I pointed out two things: no-one set out to make a bad story, and for some readers this is their favourite, and they have been waiting for us to explain why other people should agree with them. They might be wrong, or insane, but... they should never feel insulted.
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Chibnall first rose to prominence in Wholand as someone who was vocal about not liking what the production team were doing with the show. Just worth thinking about that.
So? That doesn't mean he deserves the shit piled on him.
What didn't he like?
Season 23 in general, and Pip&Jane specifically.
35 years older he probably is more forgiving, due to experience, of people who deliver usable scripts on a tight deadline.
This didn't stop us referring to the anagram of Timelash...
Late to the party, just finished the Flux series.
In all, I didn't hate it, but left a bad taste in my mouth that probably won't go away with more Chinball Who..
1. The universe is a smoking hot wasteland from the first Flux.. nothing done to "Repair" the universe at all.
2. Okay the Doc is a true immortal, and they were teasing her forgotten past lives and fell spectacularly hard at any reveal.. Atleast have the stones if you set up something, to give us some closure in answers.. even if those answers lead to other questions. Atleast bring Jo Martin back to fill in some answers, not just a few words in a mirror.. ugh..
And Big Reveal, Tectuin! .. 5 seconds latter dead, having founded a Section 31 for timelords.. Ugh..
3. Could have had a great story with the 2 "life partners" but.. didn't really mater to the bigger story and went pretty much nowhere.
4. Loved seeing Gibbs! Kevin McNally was great in the roll! Part of me wishes they'd do like Peter Capaldi, show him guest staring, then have him as the new Doctor.. He'd be great!
As a person that has watched this series since the old days.. I'm sad for Jodie, she's excellent, but the stuff they give her is a flaming bag of poo.. owell, hope RTD can do better.
In all, I didn't hate it, but left a bad taste in my mouth that probably won't go away with more Chinball Who..
1. The universe is a smoking hot wasteland from the first Flux.. nothing done to "Repair" the universe at all.
2. Okay the Doc is a true immortal, and they were teasing her forgotten past lives and fell spectacularly hard at any reveal.. Atleast have the stones if you set up something, to give us some closure in answers.. even if those answers lead to other questions. Atleast bring Jo Martin back to fill in some answers, not just a few words in a mirror.. ugh..
And Big Reveal, Tectuin! .. 5 seconds latter dead, having founded a Section 31 for timelords.. Ugh..
3. Could have had a great story with the 2 "life partners" but.. didn't really mater to the bigger story and went pretty much nowhere.
4. Loved seeing Gibbs! Kevin McNally was great in the roll! Part of me wishes they'd do like Peter Capaldi, show him guest staring, then have him as the new Doctor.. He'd be great!
As a person that has watched this series since the old days.. I'm sad for Jodie, she's excellent, but the stuff they give her is a flaming bag of poo.. owell, hope RTD can do better.
Unfortunately Jodie is leaving with him. A pity, as she deserves better material.
Oh, the irony...
Especially not in the bottom of quarries.
To be fair it isn't like RTD and Moffat weren't on record as being critical of classic Who back in the day.
I would be interested to see these criticisms. RTD wrote for the novel range when it was off air, and Moffat did the well received a comic Relief sketch.
Chibnall seems to have done almost everything the era he criticised did, with bells on. The flux is his Trial of a Timelord.
So seeing Moffat or RTD criticising those earlier eras at the time would be interesting.
Ok so done some digging and it may be I was wrong about RTD (although I'm sure I'd read something) @diankra may know?
Moffat though? He's said some doozies!
I don't know, what's worse, the wittering of a 16 year old or those of a man in his mid thirties who, by this time, was a TV professional? TBH I think Moffat was exaggerating his thoughts to get a rise out of the others around the table but even so it's hardly flattering (even if I kinda agree with him in places).
Going back to Chibnall, it's interesting because we're about the same age, god knows what kind of tosh you'd get out of me in 1986. What I do love about that clip is what it shows you about Dr Who fans and it holds true today. Chibnall is complaining that it's too run of the mill and needs to be more adult, some of the others are saying it's too convoluted.
The more things change
And, you know, opinions change.
The horror, the horror!
The horror, the horror!
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Ok so done some digging and it may be I was wrong about RTD (although I'm sure I'd read something) @diankra may know?
Moffat though? He's said some doozies!
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Just read it. It was the pub at the back of the old forbidden planet. I think it’s the rebranded intrepid fox now.
Man that took me back.
And yeah, a lot of it is Moffat needling the Baker fanboys and the fandom of the time. (This was about the time Pertwee was considered the Nadir, Tom the God, Colin the failure and Sylvester was either too little too late or a nail in the coffin) The one who is offensive briefly in the interview is actually Paul Cornell, (also known I believe as ‘shagger’) and his understanding of his audience at the time. (And ‘No Future’ wasn’t particularly radical… his books started at a high, and went downhill tbh)
It is like a little slice of who fandom at the time though. Acknowledging that Who was something a little bit naff that occasionally transcended that with a diamond great enough to elevate the whole thing and make it something you held onto when you grew up. It’s an accurate assessment even now, except we haven’t had a diamond in some time, and a lot more of the naff.
(They’re on the money with Kinda episode 3 as well… the eighties is when there was a realisation that you could do Who as basically avant garde theatre, because thee wasn’t the budget for the ideas, and Kinda sums that up, with it’s cheap design but great ideas. You can’t mend people.)
Moffat it should be noted is (a) a rising Tv star writer at this point, whereas the others are no, and he has all the arrogance you would expect from that. He also has a rep for deliberately taking the piss at the time - see the comic relief special - whilst at the same time loving the thing.
When he was running the show, you can see him trying to give you more of the stuff he thinks is good.
When Chibnall is running the show, he is repeating the things he *didn’t* like, and doesn’t seem to actually have a real thought about what the show is/was/can be.
To Moffat, there was an emotional attachment (he gave up a Spielberg gig for the job) whereas Chibnall was very reluctant after taking the role on. Some of that I can understand to a point.
I don't know, what's worse, the wittering of a 16 year old or those of a man in his mid thirties who, by this time, was a TV professional? TBH I think Moffat was exaggerating his thoughts to get a rise out of the others around the table but even so it's hardly flattering (even if I kinda agree with him in places).
Going back to Chibnall, it's interesting because we're about the same age, god knows what kind of tosh you'd get out of me in 1986. What I do love about that clip is what it shows you about Dr Who fans and it holds true today. Chibnall is complaining that it's too run of the mill and needs to be more adult, some of the others are saying it's too convoluted.
The more things change
Oh yeah, that’s full on down the pub business xD (the fitz probably lol)
I think for me the biggest difference, is not so much any change of opinion, more that Chibnall most specifically went about repeating the era he criticised in some fashion. That’s what makes it… Schadenfreude.
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Well, we should also take into account this disclaimer from the start:
Who hasn't said something regrettable after at least one round...?
