Except that she ended up in her current universe, which isn't the blank slate...
S13E03 "Once, Upon Time" BBC1 6.30-7.20pm 14th November
- Thread starter StCoop
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Except that she ended up in her current universe, which isn't the blank slate...
Our universe had a Timeless Child, yes. Who became our Doctor.
I'm saying our Doctor becomes the TC for the next universe.
Oh, damn, I missed those audio references! I guess that's in the same vein as the visual references I've been going on about.
Apparently her character's name is Awsok.
Let the search for the acronym begin!
I don't think that's better. Or worse. I just think it's different.
I'm also not entirely convinced she's inherently a warrior. We've only seen small glimpses of her past and that's not entirely representative of who she was/is. Perhaps she's only that way for that particular mission and that mission directly led into why she went into hiding (hence the immediate similar behavior).
And if she is inherently a warrior, then that leads to the question of why? Was she driven into a corner to take on that role like The Eighth Doctor was when he chose to become The War Doctor?
Which comes back to my original point: The nature of The Fugitive Doctor isn't inherently good or bad. We just don't know enough yet.
Damn. I hadn't thought of that.
I could see them being members of the same race of The Timeless Child and I would be okay with that. But I would hate them turning out to be The Timeless Child's parents. Ugh.
Maybe, but would it be any different from Moffat resetting the universe at the end of series 5? EOTUINO? End of the universe in name only?
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I have a hard time relating to a Doctor - fob watched or not - who brutally slays an entire Judoon squad in hand-to-hand combat and makes a point to painfully rip off their leader's horn.
Even the War Doctor didn't make Daleks suffer.
Even the War Doctor didn't make Daleks suffer.
Further thoughts- Barbara Flynn's character in Dr Who tonight was listed as "Awkos" in the credits- I wonder, given the Atropos and misspelled Moirae, whether this is a similarly Greek-mythology-themed corruption of Oikos, or Family/House... Which means she could the Timeless Child's mum, a future Doctor, a future Tigmi (Bel's baby, who may well be Timeless given that she's being carried through broken time post-Flux) always assuming these aren't all one and the same anyway...
That would just still leave her as the Timeless Child. Going this route would be better balanced if there had been a TC from a prior universe arriving here - the Doctor - and someone else therefore goes to be the next universe's.
Though, frankly I smell a reset button of some sort coming at the end of the season, so the Flux and Ravagers never happened, and the universe therefore isn't broke.
A mite confusing at first but another very enjoyable episode. A lot was packed in but I didn't think it was as overwhelmed as episode one was.
My first thought with Barbara Flynn was White Guardian, not sure why. Love how ballsy Whittaker's Doctor is all of a sudden, and so very mean to Yaz.
And Jo Martin, yay!
I think it's unfair to term her Doctor as a warrior, she's someone who did what she had to do to survive, and the fact that at some point (presumably after this moment?) she'll run from the Division and hide out on Earth, presumably because she's tired of what she's had to do, says something about her character. I wonder if the Division renege on it's decision to free her from service after this mission and that's what prompts her to go into hiding? I really hope we get more of her before the end of Jodie's run.
Yes it's a lot of exposition and flashing lights and explosions, but damn it's more interesting and engaging that Who's been since Capaldi left!
So re the poll, is 1 good and 10 bad this time? Very confusing and inconsistent. I was going to give it an 8, which is presumably a 3
My first thought with Barbara Flynn was White Guardian, not sure why. Love how ballsy Whittaker's Doctor is all of a sudden, and so very mean to Yaz.
And Jo Martin, yay!
I think it's unfair to term her Doctor as a warrior, she's someone who did what she had to do to survive, and the fact that at some point (presumably after this moment?) she'll run from the Division and hide out on Earth, presumably because she's tired of what she's had to do, says something about her character. I wonder if the Division renege on it's decision to free her from service after this mission and that's what prompts her to go into hiding? I really hope we get more of her before the end of Jodie's run.
Yes it's a lot of exposition and flashing lights and explosions, but damn it's more interesting and engaging that Who's been since Capaldi left!
So re the poll, is 1 good and 10 bad this time? Very confusing and inconsistent. I was going to give it an 8, which is presumably a 3
Except her name is Awsok, not Awkos (someone didn't read my earlier post!).
Agreed on all points.
Well, that's what happens when some upstart jumps in instead of letting the usual person do the review threads...
I enjoyed the first half, then mostly lost interest. Probably have to digest it a bit. But right now I don't really gaf anymore. I had hoped we'd see Ruth again, but the cameo didn't amount to anything.
"Hiding" them in their timestream was an interesting idea, but the execution... idk. The only answers we got was Vinder's backstory ... and the fact that the Doctor is responsible for the flux. Jacob was good, and so was the Serpent.
I couldn't care less for a new character introduced so late in the game, sorry Bel. But I suppose you're gone at the end of the series anyway - because Yinder are basically bonded for life at this point. Mark my words, he'll be back in a hot minute.
Also, the defensiveness/ hostility of the Doctor who doesn't want to open up to Yaz is really very one-note and quite annoying.
A couple of cringe lines, mostly "to reign in hell, muahaha". I know Bedazzled Evil Guy is supposed to be campy, but DUDE!
On the bright side, I thought Jodie was great.
"Hiding" them in their timestream was an interesting idea, but the execution... idk. The only answers we got was Vinder's backstory ... and the fact that the Doctor is responsible for the flux. Jacob was good, and so was the Serpent.
I couldn't care less for a new character introduced so late in the game, sorry Bel. But I suppose you're gone at the end of the series anyway - because Yinder are basically bonded for life at this point. Mark my words, he'll be back in a hot minute.
Also, the defensiveness/ hostility of the Doctor who doesn't want to open up to Yaz is really very one-note and quite annoying.
A couple of cringe lines, mostly "to reign in hell, muahaha". I know Bedazzled Evil Guy is supposed to be campy, but DUDE!
On the bright side, I thought Jodie was great.
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Well, Thirteen wanted to let the giant spiders starve to death instead of shooring them...
I don't quite know what the hell is going on but I'm enjoying the ride. It's funny the Flux has me more interested in characters in three episodes than I've been for the past two seasons.
Directed by Azhur Saleem, eh? That must mean something...
I have a tin ear but is that the "middle 8" in the end credits?
Directed by Azhur Saleem, eh? That must mean something...
I have a tin ear but is that the "middle 8" in the end credits?
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I gave it what would've been an 8 on the usual rating scale. Almost a 7 though. There was a lot of filler. Confusion and needless backstories to fill the time. However, there was also a lot of good stuff mixed in--including valuable backstories. So, a mixed bag but mostly good.
Jodie Whittaker was excellent as the Doctor. If only she had been written with this much agency and command in the previous two series.
I'm not a fan of pre-Hartnell Doctors. So, while Jo Martin was fine, I don't like where that story is going.
It seems like we saw how the Time Lords got that title in this episode. They literally controlled time, which was seen as uncontrollable by Swarm, thanks to Jo Doc's mission for the Division. Hence, Time Lords.
Apparently, Division said they were going to let the Doctor go free after that mission but something went wrong there. It sounds like the Division had secrets it didn't want to be known. Jo Doc I'm sure would want to remember/address them. It also seems we might know the answer to how that turns out. Jo goes into hiding but Division eventually captures Jo's Doctor and erases her memories before she can deal with Division. Swarm indicated they erased her memories and we know Jodie's Doctor can't remember.
I'm wondering if Jodie's Doctor will need to finish what Jo's Doc couldn't? She'll probably regain those memories during this series and that'll lead to the big confrontation. I'm guessing that's what their connection is building up to.
I'm also wondering if the big confrontation with Division will be in the specials rather than the current series? I'm guessing that will be the case.
Jodie Whittaker was excellent as the Doctor. If only she had been written with this much agency and command in the previous two series.
I'm not a fan of pre-Hartnell Doctors. So, while Jo Martin was fine, I don't like where that story is going.
It seems like we saw how the Time Lords got that title in this episode. They literally controlled time, which was seen as uncontrollable by Swarm, thanks to Jo Doc's mission for the Division. Hence, Time Lords.
Apparently, Division said they were going to let the Doctor go free after that mission but something went wrong there. It sounds like the Division had secrets it didn't want to be known. Jo Doc I'm sure would want to remember/address them. It also seems we might know the answer to how that turns out. Jo goes into hiding but Division eventually captures Jo's Doctor and erases her memories before she can deal with Division. Swarm indicated they erased her memories and we know Jodie's Doctor can't remember.
I'm wondering if Jodie's Doctor will need to finish what Jo's Doc couldn't? She'll probably regain those memories during this series and that'll lead to the big confrontation. I'm guessing that's what their connection is building up to.
I'm also wondering if the big confrontation with Division will be in the specials rather than the current series? I'm guessing that will be the case.
Brilliant - a 9 for me (didn't vote - poll confusing)
The way I read the dialogue re the mission for the Fugitive Doctor is that if she was successful in restoring time and capturing Swarm (which she was) it would provide an 'end for her'
Maybe her reward that was being offered is the regeneration into Hartnell with no memory - ie maybe the Doctor wants to forget...and live a 'normal' life
The way I read the dialogue re the mission for the Fugitive Doctor is that if she was successful in restoring time and capturing Swarm (which she was) it would provide an 'end for her'
Maybe her reward that was being offered is the regeneration into Hartnell with no memory - ie maybe the Doctor wants to forget...and live a 'normal' life
I suspect you're probably right on that count. This series will focus on the Flux and dealing with Swarm and Azure while the specials will deal with the Division, The Fugitive Doctor, and any other remaining threads involving The Timeless Child.
I’ve been wondering if this isn’t all Chib’s meta story about his tenure. Everyone’s saying he broke Doctor Who and it’s a mess but he’s doing it for love (Bel) and because he’s trying to do the right thing (Vinder). Here at the end of (his) time he’s just trying to get out the last part of the story before it’s repaired and something new is born. Or uh um something or maybe I’m just full of crap lol
Not entirely sure what I reckon of all that, but it mostly held my attention. I look forward to rewatching the whole Flux thing in one hit as it will probably (hopefully) make more sense then. Liked Bel (handy that she can shoot better than pseudo-Cybermen, but whatever), figured she and Vinder were an item, vaguely wondering who / what their kid will turn out to be. Whittaker even more impressive this time around. Still wish Yaz's character was better developed. Becoming less impressed by / interested in Swarm and Azure with each iteration. Still hope neither of them is the damned Master.
Probably the best part of the episode for me was the score, which was absolutely brilliant. Not sure what that means, but anyway.
Probably the best part of the episode for me was the score, which was absolutely brilliant. Not sure what that means, but anyway.
Felt like a messy episode that didn't really move the story forward. With 3 episodes left I think this one was wasted. I wonder if filming under the pandemic required something like this to replace a more straightforward adventure.
Oh, and we definitely needed more Jo Martin. Just let her shine as the Doctor instead of switching back and forth between her and Jodie.
Oh, and we definitely needed more Jo Martin. Just let her shine as the Doctor instead of switching back and forth between her and Jodie.
I'm figuring the Division eventually evolves into the Time Lord CIA. In Terrance Dicks' last short story before his death, he postulated how the Second Doctor's CIA missions in Season 6b (once he was taken out of time just before sentencing) went:
"Look, just do this one mission for us, and we'll cut you loose..."
Doctor does mission. MINDWIPE
"Look, just do this one mission for us, and we'll cut you loose..."
(Repeat as often as needed, for centuries if necessary)
That's unfortunate, as the Flux and the TC story seem so closely connected at this point that solving one riddle satisfyingly without the other seems more and more unlikely to me. I mean, I don't rule out it will be. There are still 3 episodes left, what could possibly go wrong?
I thought a bit about why this episode felt so... meh to me.
1. The timelines/ memories: An interesting concept. However, in execution, the "memories", particularly of Yaz and Dan didn't tell us anything new or interesting about them. And it should have been used for that. We already knew he was into Diane, but a bit awkward/ gunshy; unless that detail about being jilted 15 ys ago becomes important (Evil Dan Conformed11!1), it was superfluous. Same with Yaz. Yes, she has a family back home. Yes she was and maybe will be a PC again; if that is somehow relevant to her right now, make me care. OK, it set up the Weeping Angels having it out for her, I guess...
As for the Doctor, did we learn anything new except for the fact that she is supposedly responsible for the Flux?
For Vinder, we got the obligatory info dump; not bad as far as Chibnall exposition goes, it's just that the Bel sideplot didn't work for me at all. I mean, I had to laugh out loud when they had her exposition to the cyberman that she's doing it All For Love. I almost expected them to burst into song and dance.
(Fun fact - stupid "sjw forced diversity bbc agenda" people, take note: Da Man does The Right Thing. The woman is doin' it All For Love and her "as yet unborn child".) Which... Is the pregnancy supposed to make me care more for her/ Vinder? I bet the child is going to be Very Special, Timeless or not...
tbc
(I lost a longer document to my Evil Computer, so I'll post bits and pieces if and when I remember them.)
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