How The U.S.S. Excalibur Was Destroyed

[Imaus]

Honestly, Kirk leaving them on that planet is...not as humane as it looks, unless the Enterprise suddenly is just toting colonization material with them. While they can synthesize stuff (Kirk tells one of those wizards in Catspaw they can manufacture jewels extensively, though this could just be an attribute of the federation writ large than the Constitution-Class ships).

The Reliant coming around on orders from like, Colonial Command to get them out of there and bring them to another world, or bringing more supplies to make a 'proper' colony, and then getting Hijacked, would make a lot more sense.

 

[Maurice]

We know Kirk isn't a bad man so I doubt they dropped them off without adequate supplies and tools, later retconning notwithstanding.

 

[publiusr]

In TWOK, you had Khan shooting to damage, not destroy. The Enterprise was underpowered and not likely using full phasers. In the nebula, targeting was inoperative so they were just happy to make contact.

And there, the phasers were set to cut.
In TOS’ Ultimate Computer, they were also set to kill perhaps. Like Nomad, M-5 saw the ship as worth more than the people. I would also have Excalibur as a weaker vessel same as Constellation. The Commodore’s ship a Command Cruiser the equal of Enterprise…maybe not quite as modern.

 

[PhotoBoy]

I never noticed the torpedo power level labels in that scene! I always assumed it was Sulu pulling those sliders down to respond to Kirk’s command to go z-minus 10000 metres. Now sure, you’d never have sliders like that to control vertical manoeuvring on a real ship but it made sense to me as a hint to the audience that the ship was about to “dive”.

 

[Search4]

I never noticed the torpedo power level labels in that scene! I always assumed it was Sulu pulling those sliders down to respond to Kirk’s command to go z-minus 10000 metres. Now sure, you’d never have sliders like that to control vertical manoeuvring on a real ship but it made sense to me as a hint to the audience that the ship was about to “dive”.

Learn something every year. I also thought it was the -go down-

 

[DonIago]

Same! It goes by so quickly it never occurred to me to freeze frame it.

I'm not sure it makes much sense as a control for torpedo energy levels either, but it is what it is.

 

[Maurice]

Lots of things like panels being operated are shot 2nd unit and the editor just picks shots they think works. Like the switches seen thrown on one of the rent-a-computers from Modern Props just after after Saavik says “energize defense fields”. Those props were in the engine room’s upper level, not the bridge.

 

[HappyMcWonderful]

And really folks, people back in 1982 did not seriously expect people in 2021 to obsess over these things. Some of this "attention to detail" and the obsessive-mindedness that drives is just beyond comprehension.

 

[F. King Daniel]

And really folks, people back in 1982 did not seriously expect people in 2021 to obsess over these things. Some of this "attention to detail" and the obsessive-mindedness that drives is just beyond comprehension.

You say that like they didn't create a manual of correct button presses especially for the cast.

 

[publiusr]

I never noticed the torpedo power level labels in that scene! I always assumed it was Sulu pulling those sliders down to respond to Kirk’s command to go z-minus 10000 metres. Now sure, you’d never have sliders like that to control vertical manoeuvring on a real ship but it made sense to me as a hint to the audience that the ship was about to “dive”.

There were dial-a-yield nukes IIRC

 

[PCz911]

You say that like they didn't create a manual of correct button presses especially for the cast.

My pathetic memory seems to recall a statement somewhere that James Doohan actually did write up some type of overview on what the buttons did. But that might be an apocryphal memory…..

 

[HappyMcWonderful]

You say that like they didn't create a manual of correct button presses especially for the cast.

And where is this button-press guide for the cast? Certainly a copy survives to this day...?

 

[F. King Daniel]

My pathetic memory seems to recall a statement somewhere that James Doohan actually did write up some type of overview on what the buttons did. But that might be an apocryphal memory…..

The Enterprise Flight Manual is what I'm thinking of.
Full version here.

 

[PCz911]

...Yet her crew mostly drowned. So why would the crew of the Excalibur die when their ship does? Hull breaches would have to amount to vastly more than the ones that rapidly sank the Hood, if loss of air were to be the reason of death.

Radiation from phaser hits, and a jolt without inertia-nullifier protection, are good and solid treknology candidates for the deaths. We just need a bit of additional evidence that big phasers can kill via radiation; the pulping-with-impact thing is already well established elsewhere.

The other possibility is that the crew did not die. When Commodore Wesley tells Kirk twelve died, he has no reason for lying. But he never says everybody died; he twice says that some died, which basically establishes that everybody did not.

But M-5 does not fire on the ship after Wesley's second comment, about just "CO and XO" being dead, with "many casualties". So when Kirk tells it to scan for life and see if it sees any, how come it sees none?

Kirk wants M-5 to see no life. Did he somehow manage to achieve that outcome even when most of the crew is alive? Might be as simple as the crew abandoning ship; the computer is too insane at the time to consider such things, while for Kirk this would be a simple matter of procedure and training, but also another way in which he trumps a computer as a starship commander.

Timo Saloniemi

Not being an expert in naval warfare, I was curious about the hood. So I looked around ye olde internet. Here’s a super detailed review

http://www.navweaps.com/index_inro/INRO_Hood.php

Summary: I’m not sure that they all died of drowning. The ships 100 tons of cordite exploded, which would certainly affect those on the ship (by either direct blast, flying debris or pressure wave). It did sink in 3-4 minutes and anyone who survived the blast then surely would die of drowning.

if we extrapolate to TOS, you can imagine main phaser hits to a susceptible area, causing similar catastrophic explosions…and also subsequent massive structural failure and, I’d speculate, possible failure of all power to safety systems leading to explosive decompression. Between blast and loss of atmosphere, the crew would find their demise. And, like the hood, it is possible a few were fortunate to be in an area not so affected.

what that susceptible area is that the M-5 targeted requires more speculation. I’m not sure if torpedo stowage might be it…or as some said the warp core (given TMP where Scotty talks about the explosive potential of matter and anti matter mixing)

fascinating question though. Enjoying the discussion.

 

[HappyMcWonderful]

The Enterprise Flight Manual is what I'm thinking of.
Full version here.

Thank you! I'll have to see if I can find a copy for my shelf.

 

[fireproof78]

Same! It goes by so quickly it never occurred to me to freeze frame it.

I'm not sure it makes much sense as a control for torpedo energy levels either, but it is what it is.

Wouldn't it just be turning the yield down?

 

[Timo]

Easily done while arming (you probably need to inject the antimatter at the last moment before launch anyway), but probably quite doable in flight as well (any explosive that depends on mixing of components can go from poof to KABADA-DOOOOOOM!!!! through adjusting that mix, and supposedly a torp also channels some of its warhead into the engine for fuel, another thing that no doubt can be adjusted to effect).

Adjustable destructive power of phasers was there from the get-go. Adjustable torpedo yield is an established fact "from the get-go" as well, only in a different sense, as it was explicated in a prequel spinoff (in addition to other spinoffs which explicated it "later" aka earlier, but still only after TWoK and "after" TWoK). We may debate that one as regards the second movie, then - but only out-universe, not in-universe.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[blssdwlf]

Adjustable destructive power of phasers was there from the get-go. Adjustable torpedo yield is an established fact "from the get-go" as well, only in a different sense, as it was explicated in a prequel spinoff (in addition to other spinoffs which explicated it "later" aka earlier, but still only after TWoK and "after" TWoK). We may debate that one as regards the second movie, then - but only out-universe, not in-universe.

Adjustable photon torpedo power was implied in TOS "The Ultimate Computer"...

SPOCK: Captain, photon torpedoes locking on target. Full power.​

If Photon Torpedoes back in TOS can be set to Full Power, the implication is that it can be set to a lesser power or overload power, etc...

Wouldn't it just be turning the yield down?

Yes.

Perhaps the line, "Z-minus 10,000 meters stand-by photon torpedoes" doesn't mean "drop down 10,000 meters" but instead "prepare to fire torpedoes at less than 10,000m"? If that was the case then turning down the yield would makes sense.
I mean, I normally think of the vertical axis as the Y-axis and Z-azis as the fore-and-aft axis of a ship. But I can see that the Z-axis for some people could be thought of as the vertical axis too...

 

[Timo]

Or then the line covers both bases, and placing the torpedoes on the dictated standby involves taking steps previously specified, in unheard commands.

Sulu probably isn't adjusting the yield completely on his own initiative, without explicit command from Kirk (no matter how unheard by the audience). But that one isn't completely out of the question, either. Sulu might be considering the engagement ranges as dictated by the environment, and choosing the one level of yield that will not kill the Enterprise herself in case of a hit on the Reliant. Which happens to be the absolute minimum yield, considering they quite literally are pondering twenty paces!

Good catch on "The Ultimate Computer". A reference to "full" phasers is also our first cue to adjustable destructive phaser, but that one comes as early on as "A Taste of Armageddon".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Noname Given]

Honestly, Kirk leaving them on that planet is...not as humane as it looks, unless the Enterprise suddenly is just toting colonization material with them. While they can synthesize stuff (Kirk tells one of those wizards in Catspaw they can manufacture jewels extensively, though this could just be an attribute of the federation writ large than the Constitution-Class ships).

The Reliant coming around on orders from like, Colonial Command to get them out of there and bring them to another world, or bringing more supplies to make a 'proper' colony, and then getting Hijacked, would make a lot more sense.

Khan attempted to murder the entire bridge crew by suffocation, then decided slow torture was a better method. Kirk didn't unilaterally sentence then to exile on Ceti Alpha V; he gave Khan information on the planet, provided a basic shelter and supplies, and gave him (and his compatriots the CHOICE of whether to be exiled there; of stay in custody and bear the brunt of the Federation legal system.

Khan CHOSE to be exiled.

Further - the idea that Khan expected Kirk to send another ship at a later date or at certain intervals, please, that's the last thing Khan would want - people interfering in HIS society/world.

I CAN buy that after the disaster, it's something further that Khan would come up with to keep himself going after the death of his beloved wife; but had the cathatrophe not happened, I would have expected Khan to start planning the conquest of the Federation, and to make sure his pregeny follows through; and if we didn't see a follow up in 15 years (in Universe) as we did - this set up would have made one hell of a TNG episode - with the 1701-D (for whatever reason) encountering the society Khan had created on Ceti Alpha V -- but yes, we got what we got, and it was quite the enjoyable film.