Poll Dune (2021) Spoiler/Rating Thread

[wayoung]

I totally get the white saviour criticism from this movie (and even the next one). Villeneuve did confirm his plan is to follow the books storyline, which is a refutation of the white saviour trope. But until those movies come out (if ever) I can definitely see that being off putting to people. Especially since Villeneuve change Kynes death, which has a hallucination of Kynes' dad saying that the worst thing that can befall the Fremen is if they find a hero.

Spoiler: Spoiler for book series

Where Paul (and then his son) doesn't save the Fremen, he destroys them, thier culture, their religion, himself, his friends, and his family. Also, the jihad was going to happen whether Paul lived or died. It was inevitable. He's just the Fremen figurehead. He's "the tool of fate" as the miniseries put it.

 

[yotsuya]

I think the casting of this movie and the nature of the character of Paul both upend the typical white savior narrative.

 

[thribs]

Saw Dune at home on HBO MAX. I’m OK with not seeing it in the theater.

In short: Killer production design. Too sepia and murky in places. I got bored at the 2 hour mark. Not a fan of Hans Zimmer’s score. Except for Jason Mamoma and Oscar Issac, everyone's performances were flat.

But I'm over white saviors and stories of rich peeps controlling our destiny.

And yes, I have read the books, up to God Emperor, and the first book was one of my faves in high school.

Do you work for IGN by any chance?
I fail to see why the colour of his skin has to do with anything.

 

[Commander Troi]

Herewith, the rest of my comments.

I don't think I've seen Chalamet in anything else, but he impressed me here. I checked his age against MacLachlan's, and was surprised both are/were 25. Chalamet looks much younger, which I think worked well for him here. IMO, he did a good job as Paul, going from "pampered and protected boy heir" to "boy on the run" to "young man trying to understand visions that terrify him."

Ferguson played (IMO) a more complex Jessica than Annis did in 84. This Jessica is definitely nobody to mess with, but she loves Leto and adores Paul in ways I found very realistic and grounded.

Oscar Isaac was, of course, awesome. Momoa obviously worked his ass off for his fight scenes and showed a real affection for Paul. I thought Brolin was terrific as Gurney - his comments about the Harkonnens made me go "this is personal for him" even though I couldn't remember the specifics. I was also impressed with Chen Chang as Dr. Yueh - his conflicted feelings were very evident.

I expected to be impressed with Skarsgard, but WOW. He was scary! OTOH, Batista just can't act.

I think that's it for now.

 

[thribs]

Batista barely had anything to do to really judge him.

 

[wayoung]

Herewith, the rest of my comments.

I don't think I've seen Chalamet in anything else, but he impressed me here. I checked his age against MacLachlan's, and was surprised both are/were 25. Chalamet looks much younger, which I think worked well for him here. IMO, he did a good job as Paul, going from "pampered and protected boy heir" to "boy on the run" to "young man trying to understand visions that terrify him."

Ferguson played (IMO) a more complex Jessica than Annis did in 84. This Jessica is definitely nobody to mess with, but she loves Leto and adores Paul in ways I found very realistic and grounded.

Oscar Isaac was, of course, awesome. Momoa obviously worked his ass off for his fight scenes and showed a real affection for Paul. I thought Brolin was terrific as Gurney - his comments about the Harkonnens made me go "this is personal for him" even though I couldn't remember the specifics. I was also impressed with Chen Chang as Dr. Yueh - his conflicted feelings were very evident.

I expected to be impressed with Skarsgard, but WOW. He was scary! OTOH, Batista just can't act.

I think that's it for now.

Gurney grew up a slave on Gedi Prime. His sister was put in a Harkonnen brothel and likely raped to death, although he isn't sure. He has a scar from an inkvine whip on his face, given to him by Rabban himself before he escaped/was freed by the Atreides. The inkvine whip is a special weapon, designed to inflict incredible pain, and for the scar to cause chronic pain for the remainder of the victims life.

 

[Commander Troi]

Yeah, you're probably right @thribs.

 

[Commander Troi]

Gurney grew up a slave on Gedi Prime. His sister was put in a Harkonnen brothel and likely raped to death, although he isn't sure. He has a scar from an inkvine whip on his face, given to him by Rabban himself before he escaped/was freed by the Atreides. The inkvine whip is a special weapon, designed to inflict incredible pain, and for the scar to cause chronic pain for the remainder of the victims life.

Thanks. I figured it was horrible.

 

[wayoung]

Batista barely had anything to do to really judge him.

Bautista is a surprisingly good character actor, but here he wasn't given anything to do. And his first scene had him overacting to the point of hilarity. Since this happens a few more times in the movie (Mapes introduction a glaring example) I'm thinking that was the direction, not a flaw in his abilities.

Stellan also had little to do. He just repeated his performance from King Arthur, but in a fat suit.

 

[Commander Troi]

Bautista is a surprisingly good character actor, but here he wasn't given anything to do. And his first scene had him overacting to the point of hilarity. Since this happens a few more times in the movie (Mapes introduction a glaring example) I'm thinking that was the direction, not a flaw in his abilities.

Stellan also had little to do. He just repeated his performance from King Arthur, but in a fat suit.

We shall see, if part 2 gets made, if Dave does any better. I think my comments about him today may have been colored by 1) seeing SPECTRE last night, where he's just The Muscle and 2) the crappy mood I'm in. Sorry about that, folks!

I have not seen whatever King Arthur Stellan was in. I tend to avoid Arthurian movies, having been horribly disappointed by most of them.

 

[Mark 2000]

I've read the book and saw the Lynch version a half dozen times. I don't understand how this film, soon to clock in at 5 hours, manages to pack in less story, characters, and empathy than the Lynch film did. It's as if they just took Lynch's film, made it blander, and time stretched it out to three times the size. There's still way too much more “tell” than “show”. There's an opening monologue and so much exposition. There’s no extra personal time between characters. Mapes is included, but has zero to do but die. Everyone was too emo to be emotionally invested in. This thing was like a slow moving marble sculpture in the worst way. Heavy, ponderous, and stone faced.

And I don't love the Lynch film. I hate that Jessica and Chani are practically erased from it. But it's at least kooky and fun. This film just took itself too seriously.

Do you work for IGN by any chance?
I fail to see why the colour of his skin has to do with anything.

Google "white savior trope". It'll save you some embarrassment in the future.

 

[Marc]

he's just The Muscle and

That sums up "beast rabban" quite well and he's little more than pawn in the baron's game.

Just had a thought.

People are a bit disappoint in the short shrift given the Mentats and Hawat in the first part but I'm wondering in Villenvuve will have the opportunity to address things

Spoiler

following plot line where Thufir is playing feyd rautha against the baron

 

[wayoung]

That sums up "beast rabban" quite well and he's little more than pawn in the baron's game.

Just had a thought.

People are a bit disappoint in the short shrift given the Mentats and Hawat in the first part but I'm wondering in Villenvuve will have the opportunity to address things

Spoiler

following plot line where Thufir is playing feyd rautha against the baron

Well, we don't see that character die and Villeneuve has said the next film, if it gets made, should go more into Mentats, but at this point they don't even have an approved treatment, let alone a script, so that's subject to change. It's a possibility for sure.

 

[Maurice]

Do you work for IGN by any chance?
I fail to see why the colour of his skin has to do with anything.

I do.

I hereby dub Dune as Dances With Worms.

 

[wayoung]

I do.

I hereby dub Dune as Dances With Worms.

Finally, a dance for those of us without any sense of rhythm.

 

[thribs]

A sci fi dances with wolves. So Avatar.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

don't understand how this film, soon to clock in at 5 hours, manages to pack in less story, characters, and empathy than the Lynch film did.

I don't know how anyone is coming to that conclusion. The Lynch film was a load of robots walking around rattling off their lines.

I feel like the Lynch film is getting a weird rewrite in the history books similar to Enterprise on the CBS Trek forums

 

[Jarvisimo]

A question is I have is *this* Paul also a mentat? His closeness to thufir is seen when he embraces him so warmly on arrival in Arrakis, and nothing Thufir's offer of resignation is present, but nothing else is said of or shown of their relationship in the released film.

I saw it last night and while I definitely enjoyed it, I feel this cuts so much to get to its running time. It gives it a strong focus on Villeneuve's versions of Paul and - especially - his favourite character Jessica, with some good treatment afforded to Duncan Idaho and Leto. But so much else just feels like chess pieces rather than characters, because presumably it lay on the cutting room floor.

Of course this does help make it clear how much the film is indeed about his central focus, the tale of a boy and his mother.

 

[wayoung]

They don't even use the word Mentat in the film, and the discussion where they tell Paul about his secret training & he decides to continue it is not included, so I expect this Paul is not a partially trained Mentat.

It's just one more subplot, one more "super power" Paul has that he doesn't need to tell the story. Most of the time it comes up it's him having visions and his mom telling him "You can't know that, you're not a Mentat yet!" anyway, as she tries to explain away his powers as Mentat projections.

Villeneuve has confirmed, the theatrical cut is his cut. There is no directors cut. Whatever was cut was cut by him and he has no intention of adding things back in.

 

[fireproof78]

Villeneuve has confirmed, the theatrical cut is his cut. There is no directors cut. Whatever was cut was cut by him and he has no intention of adding things back in.

Good on him for that.