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Poll Dune (2021) Spoiler/Rating Thread

Rating?

  • A+

    Votes: 18 23.4%
  • A

    Votes: 26 33.8%
  • A-

    Votes: 14 18.2%
  • B+

    Votes: 3 3.9%
  • B

    Votes: 2 2.6%
  • B-

    Votes: 4 5.2%
  • C+

    Votes: 4 5.2%
  • C

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • C-

    Votes: 3 3.9%
  • D+

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • D

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • D-

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • F

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • Total voters
    77
Herbert's original material didn't really offer much for establishing the Harkonnen as horribly evil. Lynch inserted that with the gonzo-gore stuff about heart valves and whatnot, but since it's not in the book, it's sort of understandable it's not in Villeneuve's film, either. We simply learn the Harkonnen are not men of their word, with the Baron blatantly lying and betraying left and right.

Another thing Herbert never really provided was a satisfactory way of how the men of future would fight whole wars with knives and forcefields only. He gave us the why, and a half-hearted why-not for firearms and rayguns, and then the bit about how Rabban was given some classic ballistic artillery to surprise the Atreides with, but ultimately the concept of entire field armies fighting was left awfully vague. Which is what we see in the movie, too, with tactics-free slashing and stabbing between two or sometimes three mobs.

But Villeneuve tries - there are delightful visuals to establish that which cannot and really shouldn't be told in boring words. Spaceship-killing bombs or breaching pods that first drop down and then slowly force their way through the shield are really cool, and sort of the film's equivalent to the mere paragraph that Herbert originally gives for describing the fight and the future hardware used in it. We also see handheld and shipborne lasers, and they are scary as all hell, cutting through stone like butter. No ballistic artillery in evidence as such, alas.

Also, it's a brilliant choice to portray the forcefields as blue when stopping fast-moving threats and red when being penetrated by slow-moving blades or needles or the like. The audience can immediately tell what's going on, in duels or melees or ship-to-ship fights alike.

As for ecology, Kynes dies a bit differently in the film, and rather cleverly IMHO. This eliminates a chance for her(!) to have this long inner-monologue exposition about the life cycle of the shai-hulud, but we'll get it in the second movie one way or another, if we get the second movie at all.

All in all, Villeneuve chose to make the absolute minimum of choices, and IMHO made good ones, including the one to make so few... Whether this backfires when/if we get to view the duology as a whole remains to be seen.

Oh, and Shadout Mapes is in the film. And goes through all the motions, being in all the scenes that Herbert offers. She's cool when first facing Lady Jessica, yet not a presence but a prop in all the rest. We don't really learn anything about the Fremen through her past that first scene. Which is another of the good choices, leaving more for Kynes and later Stilgar to do on that front.

The Fenrings are not. Nor is there the slightest glimpse of the Emperor, which is another thing Villeneuve does better than Lynch: the Emperor is menacing rather than a puppet, and the heroes and the audience are yet to learn otherwise. Naturally no Irulan yet, either.

And no Feyd-Rautha yet, even in dialogue. Which makes sense since there isn't a plot function for him yet - but this IMHO is the one borderline bad choice in the film, as this anti-Paul does serve a significant function in the overall story, and could have done his foreshadowing bit for the King and the Country, or the Baron and the House. But there may be good and practical reasons for there being no actor for the part yet...

Timo Saloniemi

I didn't read your whole post, mostly because I thought I was in the development dune thread, not the review thread, and as soon as I realized I stopped reading, but I did read the first paragraph and I strongly disagree. The Harkonnens are over the top *stereotypically* evil in the OG novel. That's why Lynch had to go to the point of heart plugs, they are already so bad in the books. The Baron is a notorious, incestuous pedophile & rapist. His older nephew murdered Gurney's sister and tortured him with a whip, Feyd poisons opponents with glee in front of audiences of thousands, and attempts to assassinate his own uncle. They're so notoriously evil a regular Mentat won't do they have to hire specifically "twisted mentats" from the tlielaxu to help manage their evil plans (although that's later revealed to be a fraud, mentats aren't "twisted", they're just psychos put through regular Mentat training).
 
The point sorta being, the audience shouldn't be aware of basically any of that at this point yet.

Sure, poor Gurney rants and raves about the Harkonnen being beasts. But we're supposed to wonder if he isn't off kilter somehow, flinging baseless accusations. All we really know here, if reading the book, is that there has been a bit of palace intrigue there, with the usual backstabbings. And that lfe is hell for the Fremen, basically regardless of who is squeezing them. And that's what we know when watching the movie, too.

Or, actually, a bit less. But the evil of the Harkonnen unfolds just as it should, with the Baron betraying Yueh and the Bene Gesserit. Only without being stereotypically sadistic about it.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Are you talking about the movie or the book? I'm talking *specifically* of your characterizing the Harkonnens in the *book* as not being established as all that evil. They very clearly are, from their very first scene, with the Barons incestuous pedophilia front and center.
 
Are you talking about the movie or the book? I'm talking *specifically* of your characterizing the Harkonnens in the *book* as not being established as all that evil. They very clearly are, from their very first scene, with the Barons incestuous pedophilia front and center.
...which is literally the third scene of the whole book! That scene leaves very little wiggle room about the evil of the Harkonnens.
 
The Harkonnen being obviously "evil" is a good choice when it turns out that Paul initiates a greater evil that he can't control even though he initially seems to be presented as the hero. The novel wouldn't be as effective if Frank Herbert had made the morality and behaviour of the Harkonnen and the Atreides more ambiguous and nuanced.
 
The Harkonnen being obviously "evil" is a good choice when it turns out that Paul initiates a greater evil that he can't control even though he initially seems to be presented as the hero. The novel wouldn't be as effective if Frank Herbert had made the morality and behaviour of the Harkonnen and the Atreides more ambiguous and nuanced.

Which is why i hope that the second movie goes into more depth about that - as i said the first movie has a scene where Paul has a vision of the Jihad and it would help kill the white saviour "accusation" for good. It would be so awesome of the movies were such a success that they would do Messiah, Children and maybe even God Emperor as one cohesive massive story but it's a big pipedream for now.
 
Which is why i hope that the second movie goes into more depth about that - as i said the first movie has a scene where Paul has a vision of the Jihad and it would help kill the white saviour "accusation" for good. It would be so awesome of the movies were such a success that they would do Messiah, Children and maybe even God Emperor as one cohesive massive story but it's a big pipedream for now.
Even if those movies are commissioned, and I hope they are, I doubt I'll live to see them. In any case, I expect Villeneuve might move on to other projects after part 2.
 
Thank god you can’t spoil this film. It seems to be out everywhere except where I live
 
I won't be venturing back to the cinema for another few months so I doubt I'll get to see this in it's full glory, which is a shame.

I'm kind of conflicted about it anyway. I disliked the novel quite a lot, but this version looks fantastic. Will it make the difference for me ? Would seeing it on a big screen sell it any better ?

Who knows.
 
I won't be venturing back to the cinema for another few months so I doubt I'll get to see this in it's full glory, which is a shame.

I'm kind of conflicted about it anyway. I disliked the novel quite a lot, but this version looks fantastic. Will it make the difference for me ? Would seeing it on a big screen sell it any better ?

Who knows.
Did you watch any of the adaptations?
 
Do yourself all a favor and if you can see it in the theater. This is a movie meant for the big screen.
 
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