What would make the Ultimate High Security Prison for the UFP?

[Kamen Rider Blade]

IMO, nothing beats a Prison Planet.

And the best one that I can think of is Vagra II, the same planet where Armus lives on

Then create a Defensive Planetary Attack Grid System in High Altitude Orbit, long above the range of where Armus can reach. Make sure the Satellites don't have FTL capability or Impulse capabilities. Only Stationary Position Keeping RCS thrusters.

This should keep any vessels at bay and ward them off with weapons fire.

Also hide in subspace a large Geo Stationary Network of Transporter Jammers that affects all forms of Transporters, be it Real Space or SubSpace.

Automate the 1 minute random Beam Down and Beam Up windows based on every 30 minutes & proper access code to allow the UFP to drop their criminals onto the planet and make sure to plant a Sub-Dermal GPS Transponder which allows periodic beaming down of food and water as needed to keep their prisoners alive.

Can you think of a better Ultimate High Security Prison?

 

[JoseNoodles]

I would think something modeled after containers designed to hold antimatter. Definitely no leaks there.

 

[publiusr]

I'm thinking a mirror matter planet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_matter
It would be invisible, but have normal gravity. At its core, you would have zero gravity.

You would beam a convict and some air in the empty zone in the core. Even an entity like hulk could not escape, as he cannoct push against anything. The mirror matter doesn't react with anything...and normal matter would pass through. You would think this means you could escape easily. But in truth there is nothing to react with. There is only gravity.

 

[Timo]

Quantum storage, PIC style. Not only would it be simple to secure the prisoner against escape (by setting "revive" to equal "execute"), it would mean great savings as there would be no need to feed him, clothe him, wash him, or watch him. Also, he couldn't plot. A QS prison could be a pocket device or a desktop ornament in somebody's unlocked office on a populated planet, there being no need to guard it against theft because theft would only assure eternal imprisoning - only continuing possession by those authorized to access the contents would even in theory offer the chance of release.

This wouldn't translate into doing time, aka freedom-deprivation torture, as no time would pass for the convict. But why should it?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Quantum storage, PIC style. Not only would it be simple to secure the prisoner against escape (by setting "revive" to equal "execute"), it would mean great savings as there would be no need to feed him, clothe him, wash him, or watch him. Also, he couldn't plot. A QS prison could be a pocket device or a desktop ornament in somebody's unlocked office on a populated planet, there being no need to guard it against theft because theft would only assure eternal imprisoning - only continuing possession by those authorized to access the contents would even in theory offer the chance of release.

This wouldn't translate into doing time, aka freedom-deprivation torture, as no time would pass for the convict. But why should it?

Timo Saloniemi

The whole point of the old phrase, "Serving Time", means you need to spend time in prison/jail for the crimes you committed.

Freezing them, letting them bypass time for them defeats that purpose.

 

[Unicron]

But if they were ever released and found that their entire world was virtually gone, that anyone they cared about was likewise gone, isn't that arguably a pretty severe penalty?

(I admit, this thread seems rather dark in ways... ha ha )

 

[Timo]

The whole point of the old phrase, "Serving Time", means you need to spend time in prison/jail for the crimes you committed.

Freezing them, letting them bypass time for them defeats that purpose.

But then you can torture them with, dunno, whips or vivisection or whatever. Much faster, vastly more efficient, and leaves everasting scars, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

But then you can torture them with, dunno, whips or vivisection or whatever. Much faster, vastly more efficient, and leaves everasting scars, too.

They won't experience the pain & suffering if they're frozen in Quantum Storage.

 

[Timo]

I mean five thousand years of secure imprisonment after a good, sound ruining of body and soul. It has all the benefits: no risk of escape (except during the brief and intense torture, and that one doesn't require prison planets or anything), no risk of being a problem in the streets for those millennia, the deterrence effect to other wannabe wrongdoers from both the removal-from-time and the total suffering, and the warm and fuzzy feeling of vengeance for those who feel entitled to it (which is why the flaying has to come before QS, not after, since the bloodlusty folks wouldn't be around afterwards, or at least might fail to care any longer).

Torturing with mere imprisonment is both wussy and wasteful. Killing is efficient but doesn't meet most goals. And there's even the theoretical possiblity of the wrongdoer repenting, as the civilization capable of QS will also be capable of reattaching the torn limbs and returning the reformed criminal to productive work.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I mean five thousand years of secure imprisonment after a good, sound ruining of body and soul. It has all the benefits: no risk of escape (except during the brief and intense torture, and that one doesn't require prison planets or anything), no risk of being a problem in the streets for those millennia, the deterrence effect to other wannabe wrongdoers from both the removal-from-time and the total suffering, and the warm and fuzzy feeling of vengeance for those who feel entitled to it (which is why the flaying has to come before QS, not after, since the bloodlusty folks wouldn't be around afterwards, or at least might fail to care any longer).

Torturing with mere imprisonment is both wussy and wasteful. Killing is efficient but doesn't meet most goals. And there's even the theoretical possiblity of the wrongdoer repenting, as the civilization capable of QS will also be capable of reattaching the torn limbs and returning the reformed criminal to productive work.

Timo Saloniemi

At that rate, you might as well torture them, then chuck them on Kelemane's planet, to serve their time.

 

[Timo]

I guess it depends on how much machinery is involved in quantum storage. If it's less than a modern shipping container, then QS is way less hassle than transporting a prisoner across space or even oceans, with the associated risks of escape during transit. Indeed, a suspect might be placed in QS at the very moment of getting caught, and would only emerge if the legal process worked in his favor (no sentence, no harm done, no hard feelings - or then a sentence of suitably finite length). Transport the QS device to the spot of the crime, and even the risk of the perp escaping during transporter capture and transit is eliminated.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

How do you know Quantum Storage works on people and not just inanimate objects?

 

[Timo]

Why should there be any difference? If objects degraded, people probably wouldn't place them in storage of that type - least of all Picard, who would have conventional storage space aplenty at his la Barre hacienda.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

People will die of starvation if they're stuck in Quantum Storage.

 

[Timo]

Didn't you just argue that time will not pass for things in QS?

I rather think time not passing is the whole point of QS. You can put your antique Harley Davidson in any random closet in a world where distance means little. But QS is for when you really, really want to preserve the bike, despite not really knowing whether you'll next want to touch it a week from now, or fifty years.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Didn't you just argue that time will not pass for things in QS?

I rather think time not passing is the whole point of QS. You can put your antique Harley Davidson in any random closet in a world where distance means little. But QS is for when you really, really want to preserve the bike, despite not really knowing whether you'll next want to touch it a week from now, or fifty years.

But nowhere does it mention that the Quantum Archives works for living biological organisms

I think the tech that you're looking for was a dedicated Stasis Chamber.
Stasis referred to a complete cessation of movement or activity within an area.

If used when referring to lifeforms, it was also known as suspended animation or animated suspension, and denoted the limiting of bodily functions, inducing a prolonged sleep, in order to slow down the aging process. Most often this was accomplished through cryogenic stasis.

 

[Timo]

But nowhere does it mention that the Quantum Archives works for living biological organisms

There is no special mention of shuttlecraft working for living biological organisms, either. Or turbolifts, or transporters. Why would one need such special mention?

I think the tech that you're looking for was a dedicated Stasis Chamber.

All stasis called as such in Trek has involved the passage of time: people have seen dreams, woken up, aged, died.

Yet totally stopping time from passing seems doable as well: the transporter tricks of "Relics" and "Counterpoint" seem to hinge on that. And QS could well be our new name for the "Counterpoint" trick. Or if it isn't, Ill just go and postulate that a technique of that nature, with zero passage of time and zero problems with biocompatibility, be used.

That, or Kelvan dodecahedronizing. And then placing on a QS shelf.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I think it'd be easier to dematerialize a person into their constituent Matter portions and store them along with their personal matter inside a brief case.

 

[Timo]

The problem with that seems to be that the transporter can't handle the amount of data involved in disassembly and assembly. The entire computing capacity of DS9 can't cope with that when trying to take over a simple routine operation from a runabout's transporter.

Instead, the transporter cheats somehow, storing most of the information in the pattern itself, i.e. not hacking it to separate pieces altogether but merely sorta Fourier-transforming it into "phased" matter that retains information and can, say, carry a conversation. So turning a person into matter would amount to turning him into stone - only the Kelvans know how to reverse a trick like that.

A phased matter pattern doesn't keep all that well normally, but both "Relics" and "Counterpoint" feature cheats that allow it to do that very thing, in the former case for the better part of a century.

Not that it should be completely impossible to build living people out of a heap of clay, using a standard or high-end transporter/replicator. For some reason, this just never happens onscreen, not out of UFP initiative anyway.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The problem with that seems to be that the transporter can't handle the amount of data involved in disassembly and assembly. The entire computing capacity of DS9 can't cope with that when trying to take over a simple routine operation from a runabout's transporter.

Instead, the transporter cheats somehow, storing most of the information in the pattern itself, i.e. not hacking it to separate pieces altogether but merely sorta Fourier-transforming it into "phased" matter that retains information and can, say, carry a conversation. So turning a person into matter would amount to turning him into stone - only the Kelvans know how to reverse a trick like that.

A phased matter pattern doesn't keep all that well normally, but both "Relics" and "Counterpoint" feature cheats that allow it to do that very thing, in the former case for the better part of a century.

Not that it should be completely impossible to build living people out of a heap of clay, using a standard or high-end transporter/replicator. For some reason, this just never happens onscreen, not out of UFP initiative anyway.

Timo Saloniemi

Given that Scotties Jerry-Rigging Transporter cycle to always run a diagnostic and make sure the pattern doesn't degrade over 50 years with a 50% success rate, I think it might be too risky.
He did manage to lose his friend that was in the transporter buffer with him.

A simple Cryogenic Stasis Pod where you slow down the aging is good enough.