Discovery is fine as it is. No need to change a thing.
What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?
- Thread starter Amasov
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As is Picard, Lower Decks, Strange New Worlds, and Prodigy.
Exactly, it's the fans that make it a problem
They haven't started yet.
The shows haven't, but plenty of people have gone online to express their displeasure at the mere concept.
The same with Section 31, including alot of people on this very board. Unfortunately.
That's deplorable. They could at least wait to see them before they start criticizing.
Personally, I am delighted that there are so many new series in perspective. I remember a time when we were wondering if the franchise wasn't dead for good.
Honestly there's nothing wrong with people being unhappy with the concept of a series. It is, after all, the most fundamental building block of what the series will become.
I'm not wild about Section 31, personally, both for the concept and the S31 characters we've already seen on DSC.
The problem is people who can't accept that people might still surprise you (which, sure, it may be the case that I somehow wind up loving S31) or who can't accept that just because something isn't for you, it doesn't make it an objectively indisputable travesty that's RUINING STAR TREK FOREVER!!1!1!
Anyone who comes to a place like this presumably has at least one series in the franchise they actually like, so whenever a new one is disappointing to us we can always can back to that one again. And most of us have probably already had at least one series in the franchise that disappointed, too, so we really should already have developed the maturity to just accept it and move on.
I'm not wild about Section 31, personally, both for the concept and the S31 characters we've already seen on DSC.
The problem is people who can't accept that people might still surprise you (which, sure, it may be the case that I somehow wind up loving S31) or who can't accept that just because something isn't for you, it doesn't make it an objectively indisputable travesty that's RUINING STAR TREK FOREVER!!1!1!
Anyone who comes to a place like this presumably has at least one series in the franchise they actually like, so whenever a new one is disappointing to us we can always can back to that one again. And most of us have probably already had at least one series in the franchise that disappointed, too, so we really should already have developed the maturity to just accept it and move on.
This is why I am not fussed with Star Trek not being for me. I had that experience very early on with TNG. I grew up with TOS and watching it with my dad, reading TOS novels, and exploring that. Then TNG came along, and my friends were like "TOS is old news; TNG is better!" I could not get in to TNG. Picard was not an enjoyable captain, the crew interactions were unapproachable for me, and overall just not very fun. So, it wasn't for me. And that was OK. Each series I gave a shot, and then moved on.
Acceptance is a powerful tool. I strongly encourage its use.
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I also had no idea. Of course the question could be were the pants part of the uniform? I mean he was fencing, and the shirt was off.
Riley appeared to have his thumbs tucked into similar or identical pocket-like gaps on his own uniform pants so I guess those were Sulu's uniform trousers.
yes on the S31 stuff but I would say the version in Enterprise was fine too.
it would have been bold to end Voyager without them getting home. Maybe if there was a chance of getting a movie of some kind down the line.
agree about Nemisis. But it would need a bit more than editing. And I think you could say the same thing about Generations but it would involve removing Kirk altogether.
you could easily swap Pike out for a different “legacy” character. Say Captain Harry Kim (for example) if you wanted to set it that far out after Nemisis.
Canon violation.
Captain Paris would be more like it
Captain Nog (RIP, would need to recast)
Captain Naomi Wildman
What bold? They didn't make it home, they just made it back to Sector 001. Anything could have happened after the credits rolled, with them never making planetfall. For all we know, they got caught in some battle or other before they could make orbit, and only Janeway survived (so she could cameo in Nemesis). Nothing we saw with future Janeway ever happened in the corrected (skewed?) timeline, so no one got their happy ending.
Captain Nog (RIP, would need to recast)
Captain Naomi Wildman
And her number 1 Lt. Flotter
Why not? After all, Flotter is a hologram, just like the Doctor who has a Starfleet rank. So you can imagine Naomi having him recognized as a sentient being, then admitted to Starfleet academy...
I'd be down with that.... Have you seen her all grown up she's amazing
Yeah I would include the Enterprise Section 31 stuff in that. It's the weird / terrible Kelvinverse stuff that really started to make it shitty. The Discovery Section 31 is less bad, but really should have just been "Starfleet Intelligence". The entire gimmick of Section 31 was "the Federation has a 250 year old intelligence agency / secret police that makes the Talishar and Obsidian Order look like amateurs". It says a lot about Section 31 that their solution to the Founder's threat to the Alpha quadrant was to create a virus nobody else could cure they infected Odo with, knowing he'd infect the Great Link, and they nearly got away with it. The only reason they didn't is because of some Starfleet Officers. By contrast the Obsidian Order and Tal'Shiar's joint scheme got most of them killed and both organizations depleted for years.
If Section 31 doesn't seem extremely competent, at all times, then it's being mis-used.
Some folks say Voyager getting home was the point of the show. I disagree. I think it's the obvious Season 1 and Season 2 goal for the crew. And there is certainly movement in that direction every season. But as time went on, getting home, despite it being closer, became less meaningful. Season 7 really seized on this as members of the crew started to cope with the fact that getting home within the not terribly distant future would be possible and the lives and community they built on Voyager would come to an end.
Bigger picture, within the show Voyager made first contact and explored more new sectors than any ship since the original USS Enterprise. In that sense, it was already a historically significant ship. But the technology it picked up along the way I think is an essential part of its legacy. Particularly Quantum Slipstream. Books and games have, in my view, rightly seizes on Quantum Slipstream as "the answer" to allow the Federation to explore beyond local space and fill in where various experiments in going past Warp 9.999 had failed.
Point being, if there was ever a show or a story where "the road, not the destination, is what mattered", it's Voyager.
If it were up to me, I would have given them some reason - a good reason - to stay in the Delta Quadrant, with the promise of something (Quantum Slipstream? Some kind of gateway?) opening up the possibility of Starfleet coming to them, rather than simply flying their ship back to Sector 001. I think ending the show wondering if they would ever get home or to their destination, like Stargate Universe, would be a mistake. But I think a better ending than the one we got would have been "getting home, ultimately, doesn't matter given what they've been through and done').
There is an excellent Fan Edit of Nemesis called "Romulus and Remus" as part of "Season 8" that basically fixes the movie. It's hard to find but it's worth it. It removes B-4, Data's death and re-orders a bunch of scenes. The crew is summoned to Romulus to meet Praetor Shinzon. Shinzon is conspiring for Romulan hardliners to attack the Federation. He meets Picard and they have the same scenes together. Shinzon soon after abducts Picard. Data beams over and rescues Picard (in the B-4 jumpsuit, but not actually B-4 since there is no B-4 in this version). The Enterprise flees to the Bassen Rift and the hardliners turn on Shinzon. The Romulan Warbirds come assist the enterprise, but are disabled. The Battle of the Bassen Rifts ends up with Troi using her telepathy to find the Scimitar (no telepathic rape) and its destroyed by Shinzon's arrogance and sloppiness in toying with Picard (Picard "Fire all weapons" cut to the Scimitar blowing up). The movie then shifts quickly to spacedock for the Enterprise Re-fit and then ends on the wedding scene, as the Enterprise D family symbolically moves onto its next stage. Ending on the wedding REALLY works as a wrap up to the entire TNG show.
Some of the edits are sloppy but I feel like a pro could make an amazing movie out of it. But ending on the Wedding and the note it leaves on, I think, would have made people like the movie a lot more than they did.
For sure. When it comes to the Klingon's I've long thought about both Sloan's prophecy about the Klingon's post-Dominion War recovery and Worf's monologue when he was briefly Chancellor. When Discovery premiered and its tech looked way post-Nemesis and a style completely out of sync with the Berman era, I kept coming back to this idea "what if the Klingon's spent the decades after the Dominion War recovering, assessing themselves, and after Martok and Worf went back to basics, as aggressive conquerors" and "What if Klingons blamed the casualties of the Dominion War on the decades of peaceful co-existence with their neighbors for softening them". DS9 even broached that topic in Season 4.
I think it would have worked. In the Berman era, the message was that reform for the Klingons was to become more like the Federation. That was Berman's humanist POV blaring through. However the Klingons are not human and for them reform would likely mean doubling down on their cultural fundamentals than moving further from them.
I gave up on that "what if" by Season 2, but I still like to refer back to it. Honestly I see Discovery's original setting as a legacy of the push and pull over what "the next STar Trek show" was going to be. Recall, originally it was going to be a post-Undiscovered Country anthology show that would skip around to different eras. The Season 1 emphasis on the Klingons was pulled from that. It also harvested the old "Planet of the Titans" Enterprise design for some reason. We got phasers and communicators that look very much like TOS, but ship design that looks post-Nemesis and uniforms that look not-Star Trek. It was a creature made by a committee. Which is why I think that Season 3 going to the 32nd century has been the best thing for the show. It's allowed for drawing a line under Discovery having too many parents.
You mean Scarlett Pomers? Yes, she's very pretty. And even as a child, she was quite an actress much better than the other child actors that we've seen in Voyager.
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