The Wrath of Khan vs The Undiscovered Country

[Khan 2.0]

Nicholas Meyer just tweeted this so maybe it requires a poll on bbs..
Nicholas Meyer on Twitter: "Star Trek: 5 Ways Wrath Of Khan Is The Best TOS Movie (& 5 Ways It's The Undiscovered Country) / Twitter

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I went with TUC. I love them both, but I find myself coming back to TUC more often.

But MAN, do I hate those listicle articles along the lines of "Five Things That Support Our Central Premise (And Five Things That Subvert It)."

 

[Khan 2.0]

I went with TUC. I love them both, but I find myself coming back to TUC more often.

But MAN, do I hate those listicle articles along the lines of "Five Things That Support Our Central Premise (And Five Things That Subvert It)."

yeh ordinarily i wouldnt post it but was more surprised to see Meyer active on twitter posting Trek stuff about his movies lol

 

[JonnyQuest037]

yeh ordinarily i wouldnt post it but was more surprised to see Meyer active on twitter posting Trek stuff about his movies lol

Hey, I'm glad you posted the link, because I went to Meyer's Twitter and discovered that he's got a new Sherlock Holmes novel coming in November. So thanks for that!

 

[Khan 2.0]

Hey, I'm glad you posted the link, because I went to Meyer's Twitter and discovered that he's got a new Sherlock Holmes novel coming in November. So thanks for that!

youd think the makers of the RDJnr Sherlock movies would want him on board to tinker with the scripts or even direct the new one but no.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

youd think the makers of the RDJnr Sherlock movies would want him on board to tinker with the scripts or even direct the new one but no.

I'd rather just see Meyer direct his own Sherlock Holmes film from scratch, or adapt one of his own SH novels.

 

[yotsuya]

There are several things that TWOK just got right. TUC was good, but didn't nail it quite as well.

 

[Mage]

TWOK is pretty overhyped. It's a great action flick, and has some of the best character moments. But I rewatch TUC the most of all the TOS movies, except for TMP. It just ticks all the boxes for me for a great Star Trek movie, even though it does have some flaws.

 

[Damian]

TWOK is better IMHO than TUC is.

TWOK is my 2nd favorite Star Trek film. It's got everything, action, drama, good character moments, emotion, great special effects despite having a lower budget than the previous film and an iconic villain played perfectly by Ricardo Montalban. Meyer really gets the most out of his characters. In fact my only real complaints have to do with things I've noted in the past about plot holes in the details of the story that don't hold up with close scrutiny and casting choices of Khan's band of merry supermen (specifically how they suddenly became an 80's Swedish hair band).

I find TUC to be a middle of the road Star Trek film. The overall story is good. It shakes things up with the prospects of peace between the Federation and Klingon Empires, and the basic conspiracy idea, sabotage and framing of Captain Kirk were good as well, the special effects were good, and there is a great battle sequence at the end. And while the role of Chang is a bit caricatured, Christopher Plummer is still a great actor and in some ways overcomes some of that. Plus, I liked the added touch of the patch nailed to his head. Very Klingon But I have serious issues with the overt bigotry, especially among the command crew of the Enterprise. Spock alone is his old familiar self. Captain Kirk I can understand. He's had the most history with the Klingons and, well, Klingons murdered his son and they've been after him since the events of TSFS (in universe about 8 years prior). But the rest of the command crew is very much out of character for me. I can understand caution, even some distrust. But I would also think there'd be some hope, and at the very least an open mind. That is something that always bothered me about TUC and does drag the film down for me.

For the record my favorite Star Trek films are TMP in first place, TWOK in 2nd place and FC in 3rd. TUC probably falls around 6th or 7th place. My middle films do tend to fluctuate. Only my top 3 and bottom 2 are pretty firm (bottom 2 are Insurrection and TFF--though I don't hate any of the Trek films, just that somebody has to come in last and those 2 are unchanging, though I've noticed a new appreciation for TFF over the years, if they'd just fix the damn special effects--but that's another thread ).

 

[PCz911]

. (specifically how they suddenly became an 80's Swedish hair band).
).

this! I honestly laughed out loud! Too funny…and, well, now that you mention it, sort of too true. Great insight and a very humorous POV! Well said!

 

[STEPhon IT]

Spock alone is his old familiar self.

It's the centralized thinking which came from the actor himself Leonard Nimoy, where all the plot casts shades on the characters except for himself. Nimoy never hid from having the best interests for his co-creation. Shatner had similar sentiments in TFF where those things permeated, I guess its an ego thing.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

The answer is TMP.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I picked TUC, because it was more than just a movie to me. It occupies a definitive place in Trek history: the end of TOS, the passing of the torch to TNG. It had a very sobering message, as Spock said "It is a reminder: all things must end." There was something special about the build-up to December 6th, 1991, then buying the ticket, the popcorn, and living a part of Trekdom in the theatre.

TWOK is fun, but I agree with others upthread. It's an overhyped action flick (without too much action).

 

[Indysolo]

TWOK is superior.

 

[Jeyl]

Star Trek II is definitely a better product, but don't take that as a smite towards VI either. I love both films and I think Nicholas Meyer really showed us what it means to be a 'storyteller' rather than a filmmaker'. When most movies got sequels, they were pretty much nothing more than rehashes of the first film with just fancier effect or new characters. VI definitely felt like a different beast compared to II and it was all better for it.

 

[DonIago]

When I'm thinking about this right now, I'm mostly thinking TWoK is better because:
1) Spock's Death. TUC doesn't have anything that hits that hard.
2) TUC's usage of TNG sets is...distracting...for me.

However, TUC gets a lot of props for being a good reflection of contemporaneous events, while TWoK is a great yarn well told, but it doesn't really have any "message" or much self-examination.

 

[Paul755]

TWOK easily.

but I still do love TUC quite a bit.

 

[fireproof78]

I went with TUC. I love them both, but I find myself coming back to TUC more often.

But MAN, do I hate those listicle articles along the lines of "Five Things That Support Our Central Premise (And Five Things That Subvert It)."

Same. I can enjoy both movies for incredibly different reasons. TUC touches on politics and themes of fear and change that always resonates with me. Also, one of the best portrayal of Klingons. The novel is par excellence and fleshed out the film nicely. The ending is the perfect send off.

TWOK is a very dynamic piece, using classic literature in a well woven way.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The novel is par excellant and fleshed out the film nicely.

I personally disliked the novelization. Too many instances of the author trying to explain away things from the film. If you dislike the script that much, don't take the job of adapting it.

 

[fireproof78]

I personally disliked the novelization. Too many instances of the author trying to explain away things from the film. If you dislike the script that much, don't take the job of adapting it.

It got a little bit expository, but there were small moments, ones that really didn't fit the pacing of the film, between Azetbur and Kerla regarding the experimental Bird of Prey. Small moments like that were very enjoyable for me.