"Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"

[TroiFan4ever]

Did anyone enjoy this episode? I'd just seen this. Since I first seen this episode a few years ago, I recall being amazed due to the fact that an Intrepid Class Starship made an appearance on DS9. I thought it was the USS Voyager but it's actually the USS Bellerophon, that Bashir was on for a mission for Section 31.

The plot aside, since the VOY crew never got to wear the gray-yoked uniforms, it was really interesting seeing Bashir in his and the Bellerophon crew wearing theirs on that ship. To be honest though, first seeing this episode, I thought I was in for a DS9-VOY crossover event until I re-remembered that the VOY crew were stranded in another Quadrant in the galaxy so such a crossover wouldn't have been possible, except in the VOY premiere when Harry Kim and Tom Paris met Quark at his bar on DS9.

In any case, all things consider, they DID after all "borrow" the VOY sets for use in this episode and technically I guess it wouldn't be much of a far cry to say it was the USS Voyager since I THINK they recycled some stock footage from VOY of the Voyager passing through space to use as establishing shots for this episode, some of them at least but in one establishing shot the word "Bellerophon" was seen on the Intrepid Class ship when it was near a Romulan ship.

Anyway, all the VOY stuff aside, this episode made me strongly dislike Sloan. He basically bullied Bashir into undergoing the undercover mission for him. Nonetheless it made me happier that the admiral on the Bellerophon sought out Bashir's help in collecting enough evidence to arrest Sloan for treason. Still, too bad he wasn't vaporized for real at the end of the episode. With ten episodes remaining, this episode would've been perfect for closing out the Bashir vs. Sloan storyline for good.

I recall in a similar episode in which the senior staff were being detained in their quarters for questioning, Bashir was in a simulation on the Defiant that showed Worf, Kira, O'Brien, Sisko, etc. confronting him for betraying them but when the simulation is over he's shown inside an Intrepid Class holodeck room being spoken to by Sloan and a couple of his men. Were they on the Bellerophon in that scene too?

 

[NCC-73515]

Back when 31 was done well

 

[Oddish]

I don't get why S31 wanted anything to do with Bashir, genetically modified or not. Surely they could find someone who actually wanted to work for them...

 

[fireproof78]

In any case, all things consider, they DID after all "borrow" the VOY sets for use in this episode and technically I guess it wouldn't be much of a far cry to say it was the USS Voyager since I THINK they recycled some stock footage from VOY of the Voyager passing through space to use as establishing shots for this episode,

Yes, they did. It was a flight shot and you can clearly see USS VOYAGER and the registry.

That said, I have always enjoyed this episode because it shows the compromises made in the face of war, not just with S31 but with Ross. It showed that despite wanting to have that idealism that Bashir had Ross was faced with a terrible predicament of working with the Romulans and still maintaining Federation interests. It was a mess of a relationship.

As for Bashir working with S31 I think Sloan grossly underestimated Bashir in terms of his ability to be leveraged.

 

[Oddish]

As for Bashir working with S31 I think Sloan grossly underestimated Bashir in terms of his ability to be leveraged.

Oh, certainly. And that underestimation led to his defeat at the end. But why didn't he find someone who actually WANTED to be an interstellar secret agent? No leveraging required then.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh, certainly. And that underestimation led to his defeat at the end. But why didn't he find someone who actually WANTED to be an interstellar secret agent? No leveraging required then.

I think he was looking for someone they could use quickly, and Bashir provided an opportunity to be on the front lines without gaining Sisko's trust. Bashir feeling a bit like an outsider as well as his fascination with spy holograms seemed like helpful tips in his favor of willingness to help Section 31, even if uncertain at first.

 

[Farscape One]

Plus in this instance, he specifically needed Bashir because he is a doctor. He could better gauge at a glance Koval's medical status than anyone else. Bashir was also asked to go to this conference, so his presence wouldn't draw any attention because he was already invited. And his genetic enhancements also make him a prime person to use by Section 31.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't get why S31 wanted anything to do with Bashir, genetically modified or not. Surely they could find someone who actually wanted to work for them...

In that case, Sloan specifically wanted someone heroically naive. In other cases I think it’s his ego and belief in his rightness that convinced him Bashir would inevitably fall on his side.

Yes, great episode showing Starfleet’s see no evil attitude and section 31 not only wanting to win the war, wanting Federation dominance over all other powers.

 

[fireproof78]

In that case, Sloan specifically wanted someone heroically naive. In other cases I think it’s his ego and belief in his rightness that convinced him Bashir would inevitably fall on his side.

Excellent way of putting it.

 

[Oddish]

If the Federation was a body, S31 would be like the... uhhh... digestive terminus. It's kept out of sight and no one wants to talk about it, but it's necessary nonetheless.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, with the views on being more enlightened acknowledging unsavory aspects must be deeply disquieting.

 

[dupersuper]

If the Federation was a body, S31 would be like the... uhhh... digestive terminus. It's kept out of sight and no one wants to talk about it, but it's necessary nonetheless.

I'd say it's a cancer destroying the body from within...

 

[Oddish]

I'd say it's a cancer destroying the body from within...

Under the wrong circumstances, it could be. But sadly, I think that any large political body faces times when it has to get a little dirty, such as when Sisko used subterfuge to trick the Romulans into the war. It's just the sort of thing Section 31 should have been doing.

 

[dupersuper]

Under the wrong circumstances, it could be. But sadly, I think that any large political body faces times when it has to get a little dirty, such as when Sisko used subterfuge to trick the Romulans into the war. It's just the sort of thing Section 31 should have been doing.

As long as the Federation tolerates it they have no moral authority and should rightly be dismissed as hypocrites.

 

[Oddish]

Until Enterprise and Discovery made retroactive changes, S31 wasn't "tolerated" by the majority of the Federation. Unlike the Tal Shiar or the Obsidian Order, which existed pretty openly, S31 was super secret, accountable to none but itself, and probably very few people were aware it existed at all. Its function was to seek out threats to the Federation and deal with them, quietly but mercilessly.

 

[Farscape One]

DISCOVERY made that retroactive change, which I never liked.

ENTERPRISE did not. They were still pretty secret. Plus, the Federation didn't even exist yet. Section 31 is part of the Starfleet Charter, not the Federation's.

 

[fireproof78]

Until Enterprise and Discovery made retroactive changes, S31 wasn't "tolerated" by the majority of the Federation. Unlike the Tal Shiar or the Obsidian Order, which existed pretty openly, S31 was super secret, accountable to none but itself, and probably very few people were aware it existed at all. Its function was to seek out threats to the Federation and deal with them, quietly but mercilessly.

Like as not Section 31 grew bolder, feeling like it could wield more power and be more effective if it paired itself with Starfleet proper. Then it became too exposed and got summarily gutted after overreaching. I have a feeling that the behaviors in Discovery led to the attitude in DS9.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

If the Federation was a body, S31 would be like the... uhhh... digestive terminus. It's kept out of sight and no one wants to talk about it, but it's necessary nonetheless.

Not as necessary as they claim to be.